# Enterprise Kir'Shara Spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 3, 2004, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965 "2004-12-03T21:47:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2004, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/81 "2004-12-07T18:51:28Z")
Could I get you started on the opening scenes of _Voyager_? ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/82 "2004-12-08T05:36:15Z")
[Romulan arc spoilers](http://www.trektoday.com/news/071204_03.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/83 "2004-12-08T12:48:33Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > Oh, and I meant to follow up on something I said last week, where I referred to the political parallel (V’Lass’s “pre-emptive strike” strategy based on intelligence about Andorian weapons development) as “ballsy.” I withdraw that, seeing as how the third episode in the arc failed to pay it off in any substantial way. I was suggesting that (as **Jonathan Chance** speculated) setting up a political and military dilemma analogous to our own without trying to pay it off immediately was a risky choice, but that it could work really well if it turned out they had some fresh ideas about the situation and were drawing it out on purpose to heighten the effect of a socko climax; but as it happens it just sort of fizzled. So, never mind. Boy, I’d forgotten I brought that up. Mind like a steel trap, Cervaise. Of course, in this benighted town I can’t actually SEE Enterprise… ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/84 "2004-12-08T13:10:24Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > [Romulan arc spoilers](http://www.trektoday.com/news/071204_03.shtml) You’ll notice that there’s a fellow named “valdore”. I wonder if that has anything to do with the ship [/sarcasm] ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/85 "2004-12-08T13:20:08Z")
> [@Jonathan Chance](#): > > Of course, in this benighted town I can’t actually SEE Enterprise… I am offering DVDs to those who will become my sock puppet bit… Never mind. ---
**Author:** ![Corner\_Case](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/corner_case/32/234_2.png) [@Corner\_Case](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corner_Case)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/86 "2004-12-08T17:00:44Z")
{non sequitur} In the [space ghost]Space Battle[/space ghost], the Andorian ship fired blue lasers/particle canons/whatever and the Vulcans fired green ones. So, do all Human ships fire red ones? If we fire whitish ones, does that mean the ship is fighting an infection? If we fire blue ones does it mean royalty is aboard? If we fire purple ones does that mean the armory has an arterial-venus fistula? Inquiring minds… ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/87 "2004-12-08T17:17:22Z")
For something completely different… Does anyone else think Shran is played by a youngish clone of Richard Widmark? He seems to bear a striking resemblance, both in looks (minus the blue make-up) and voice. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/88 "2004-12-08T17:54:09Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Shran is played by a youngish clone of Richard Widmark? Jeffrey Combs [http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/features/firstperson/article/8277.html](http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/features/firstperson/article/8277.html) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/89 "2004-12-08T19:23:19Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Jeffrey Combs > > [http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/features/firstperson/article/8277.html](http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/features/firstperson/article/8277.html) Wow. He doesn’t look anything like Shran when he’s not wearing make-up!! Nor does he look like RW… ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/90 "2004-12-08T21:31:45Z")
Good stuff- both 3 part arcs were outstanding improvements. I am actually looking forward to watching the episodes each week. > [@](#): > > Unfortunately everyone else gets no air time. I disagree. Travis and Hoshi could stand even less time IMHO. More Doctor though please. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2004, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/91 "2004-12-09T02:49:56Z")
Soong arc repeats for rest of Dec. :mad: :dubious: ☹ ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2004, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/92 "2004-12-09T05:36:34Z")
Okay, this has been bugging me for the past few seasons: Trip really has to stop worshiping Archer, no? I mean, every time he makes a decision he must be wondering, WWJAD? He thinks the guy can do no wrong. I want to see JA eff up so badly that even Trip is forced to call him on it. That’s all. ---
**Author:** ![Corner\_Case](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/corner_case/32/234_2.png) [@Corner\_Case](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corner_Case)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2004, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/93 "2004-12-09T16:02:36Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > Soong arc repeats for rest of Dec. Network Executive in the toilet thinking out loud … Wow, we heard some good feedback about those episodes with, uh, what’s-his-name, uh, Spiner, yeah. So let’s just keep running that show ad infinitum. … Maybe if we just cut the best scenes out of all the episodes we could make a show that would be Over The Top and cost us nothing! … Ooh, Ooh, I’ve got it! Let’s just find the best two minutes in the series and repeat that ad infinitum. Repeat it twenty times in the hour and stick in lots of commercials. Oh, and make a grabber that foreshadows the two minute piece and stick it in there too, just to break things up a bit. … Now, what are the best two minutes we can loop? … Uh, …, well, uh, … hmmm … ---
**Author:** ![Linus\_Van\_Pelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@Linus\_Van\_Pelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linus_Van_Pelt)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2004, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/94 "2004-12-09T17:02:09Z")
> [@vivalostwages](#): > > Okay, this has been bugging me for the past few seasons: > > Trip really has to stop worshiping Archer, no? I mean, every time he makes a decision he must be wondering, WWJAD? He thinks the guy can do no wrong. > > I want to see JA eff up so badly that even Trip is forced to call him on it. > > That’s all. A little conflict between Trip and Archer could make things interesting. But it brings up a question - when Trip is in command, isn’t he more or less obligated to base his decisions on what Archer would do? It’s Archer’s ship after all. Trip is just the temporary caretaker. A couple of commnets on the episode. I was a bit disappointed. It was pretty decent but, like **Cervaise**. I was really hoping they’d have a fresh take with their social commentary. Nope. Same old, same old. I was also a bit put off by the scene at the high command. At the time, I thought “Oh, come on! Does V’Las really think he’ll get away with having a gun pulled on another council member? Aren’t they going a little far to show how ‘evil’ this guy is?” But the scene at the end may end up salvaging this for me. If he is a Romulan agent, then in the pressure of the moment, years of Romulan habits may have taken over. I also second the hope that there’s some fallout for Trip’s decision. Whethor or not it was the right thing to do, there’s no way they’d let him get away with it. And a scene (or even a whole episode) defending him could make for good drama. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2004, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/95 "2004-12-09T17:34:08Z")
> [@Linus Van Pelt](#): > > when Trip is in command, isn’t he more or less obligated to base his decisions on what Archer would do? We really need some naval folks in these threads. All I know is what I read in _The Caine Mutiny_ > [@Linus Van Pelt](#): > > If he is a Romulan agent Oh, my. That takes care of my main problem with this arc; what is his motivation? From his conversation, he would be a Vulcan Romulan agent though, not a Romulan spy. > [@Linus Van Pelt](#): > > I also second the hope that there’s some fallout for Trip’s decision. I was afraid that T’Pau would smooth things over with Starfleet, as in _Amok Time_. ---
**Author:** ![Corner\_Case](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/corner_case/32/234_2.png) [@Corner\_Case](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corner_Case)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2004, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/96 "2004-12-09T17:40:00Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > We really need some naval folks in these threads. I have a navel. And I have a friend who is an amateur belly dancer. Does that help? Oh, naval … never mind. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2004, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/97 "2004-12-09T18:43:31Z")
1. Jeffrey Combs played various Ferengis? But he’s not Jewish! 😉 I really like Shran because he’s always so angry–and he’s a NICE Andorian. The idea of an entire people with anger management issues but in the most adorable shade of baby blue appeals to me. Hmmmm, maybe their color is why they are so mad. It’s hard to get respect when folks just want to pinch your chubby blue cheek. 2. Yeah, lurpas were bigger in _Amok Time._ Lots sharper, too. Those guys were using the blade ends as bludgeons, fercryinoutloud! 3. Is Trip turning into a better captain than Archer? Maybe it’s just that I liked watching him verbally bitchslap Reed. The punk is just too familiar sometimes. 4. **Cervaise** , it was a small nebula. Jeeze, if you techno-nitpickers took over sci-fi TV would turn into C-Span. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2004, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/98 "2004-12-09T18:58:00Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > Oh, that reminded me of another nitpick in this episode: [Cervaise bashing]Good gad, Sir or Madame, we are speaking of a television progam in which the protagonists (and the antagonists, for that matter, but I will _not_ be led to digression) travel faster than light![/Cervaise bashing] ---
**Author:** ![Linus\_Van\_Pelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@Linus\_Van\_Pelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linus_Van_Pelt)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2004, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/99 "2004-12-09T20:30:45Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > 1. **Cervaise** , it was a small nebula. Jeeze, if you techno-nitpickers took over sci-fi TV would turn into C-Span. 😉 Yeah, because while a large nebula is still a pretty good vacuum that only looks like a cloud from light years away, _small_ nebula look and act just like fogbanks. Except that they also interfere with sensors. Sensors that can not only detect people behind thick armor plating, but can determine what variety of life form they are. Really. We swear. In all seriousness, this brings up a good question. While we know that it’s possible, though rare, to create good, science based SF, can it be done with a SF series that is action-oriented? Or will the needs of the action always outweigh the needs of the science? IIRC, the woosh sound was added in TOS because the silent ship movement just didn’t look and sound right. Is there an inherent incompatability between good science and good action in SF? And to address **carnivorousplant’s** point. FTL travel, while scientifically… suspect… is the jumping off point for this series. We suspend our disbelief enough to accept that while science as we know it does not allow for FTL travel in normal space, there’s just barely enough gray that we’ll let them get away with technobabble involving “warp fields.” It doesn’t directly contradict known science, just kind of sidesteps it a bit. To my mind, there is a difference, even if it’s a subtle one. And let’s not deny that part of it is tradition. There’s a long standing tradition of allowing some type of FTL travel even in serious, “hard” science fiction. That does add it an air of legitimacy. And back to point 1: without it the series doesn’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2004, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/100 "2004-12-09T20:55:19Z")
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