# Enterprise - Love it or hate it? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 27, 2001, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-love-it-or-hate-it/84037 "2001-09-27T02:03:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![xizor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xizor/32/102_2.png) [@xizor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xizor)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2001, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-love-it-or-hate-it/84037/81 "2001-09-27T20:31:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bouv \* > \*\*But, unlike Seven, she’s willing to show a little skin now and then as well as a skin tight body suit, hehe. > \*\* I remember Seven being stark nekkid on at least 2 seperate occasions. How much more skin can you show on network television? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2001, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-love-it-or-hate-it/84037/82 "2001-09-27T20:40:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fiver \* > \*\ ***The Controvert** : > > > [@](#): > > > > 1. The writers don’t understand what the word “evolution” means. > > > > Hmmm, I think if I encountered some alien ninjas who crawl on walls and have skin that bent light and made them disappear, I would think that’s pretty evolved. > > Then you don’t understand what the word “evolution” means either. I recommend you spend some time at [http://www.talkorigins.org](http://www.talkorigins.org) and get back to us. \*\* Besides, as the doctor tried to explain, they’re “genetically engineered”, not “evolved.” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Bad\_Astronomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f05b48/32.png) [@The\_Bad\_Astronomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Bad_Astronomer)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2001, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-love-it-or-hate-it/84037/83 "2001-09-27T20:46:26Z")
I’ll put in a plug here; I reveiewed the astronomy of Enterprise on my website at [http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/tv/enterprise.html](http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/tv/enterprise.html). I liked it, actually, with a few reservations. The distance to the Klingon homeworld was messed up, though the other numbers made sense. And I can even explain Rigel… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2001, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-love-it-or-hate-it/84037/84 "2001-09-27T20:50:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fiver \* > \*\*Then you don’t understand what the word “evolution” means either. \*\* Explain it for us. I take it that everything is “evolved” in that all creatures evolved from something, right? Am I correct in thinking that “Highly evolved” is not correct because an organism has evolved traits like a long neck or wings that cause nature to select it because it can eat leaves higher up on the tree.? ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2001, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-love-it-or-hate-it/84037/85 "2001-09-27T20:57:56Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by The Controvert_ > 2. Use of “where no MAN has gone before”. > > Yes, they want to go where no humans have gone before. Looks to me like there’s plenty of aliens already there. Later, in TNG, they’re going where literally no ONE had gone before… to areas of space that travellers had not reached. Respectfully disagree, Controvert. I don’t recall any episodes where there were no other sentient beings or entities present. There may have been a few that I can’t recall, but for the most part, there was ALWAYS someone there first. Hence, “no ONE has gone before” is not really correct, just PC revisionism. IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Baraqiyal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@Baraqiyal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baraqiyal)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2001, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-love-it-or-hate-it/84037/86 "2001-09-27T21:11:00Z")
The guy from the future is apparently an enemy of the Klingon Empire. Here’s my scenario: In “The Trouble with Tribbles”, Scotty beams all of the Tribbles to the Klingon ship. The Klingons, being real bastards, beam them into space. Word of this massacre gets out to the general Tribble population, and now the hatred of the Klingons turns into a deep, burning rage. Fast forward a few million years. The Tribbles have evolved, and driven by their rage, have developed temporal technology to assist them in eradicating the Klingon vermin before they have an opportunity to slaughter their ancestors. Overall, I’d give the pilot episode a B. ---
**Author:** ![KeithB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/48db29/32.png) [@KeithB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KeithB)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2001, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-love-it-or-hate-it/84037/87 "2001-09-27T21:18:06Z")
The aliens used the word “evolved” to describe the process. They also made a big deal bout the humans sharing a lot of DNA with Apes. I would bet that those aliens still share a lot of DNA with _their_ closest relatives. Individuals do not evolve, populations do. Unless those enhancements are passed on to the little aliens, there is no evolution, just genetic engineering. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2001, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-love-it-or-hate-it/84037/88 "2001-09-27T21:29:21Z")
> [@](#): > > Am I correct in thinking that “Highly evolved” is not correct because an organism has evolved traits like a long neck or wings that cause nature to select it because it can eat leaves higher up on the tree.? There is no such thing as “highly evolved” or “more evolved”, as if there were a purpose or goal to the evolutionary process. Evolution refers only to the change in gene frequency in a given population over time. when a stressor is added to the local environment, only genes that provide a benefit against that stressor will thrive in a given population. Say that you have a bacterial disease and you take antibiotics to clear it up. If you don’t take the full course, the bacteria that contain genes that are resistant to the antibiotic will reproduce more than bacteria that are not resistant. The frequency of the resistant gene has increased, and the frequency of the non-resistant gene has decreased. That species of bacteria has adapted to its new environment. That’s evolution in a very small nutshell. Mind you, my example is horribly over-simplified, but there isn’t time or space to deliver an adequate intro to the evolutionary theory. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2001, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-love-it-or-hate-it/84037/89 "2001-09-27T21:38:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jkusters \* > \*\*My favorite scene: Archer’s face just as he realizes he’s beel transported off the Suliban ship. That was hilarious. > > JOhn. \*\* Would have been better if he said “Oh boy.” once he got back. ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2001, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-love-it-or-hate-it/84037/90 "2001-09-27T21:51:48Z")
Hey, I thought it was okay. A few additional observations: - I like the politics involved, with the humans railing against their Vulcan “advisors.” The “temporal cold war” bullshit likely won’t see the light of day again until the end of the season, when someone decides they need a plot arch. Don’t worry about it. - I also like the Vulcan “emotionalism.” Vulcans only supress their emotions. Humans obviously have a habit of bringing them out. The implication, I think, is that humans have played a role in making the Vulcans _more_ stoic than they originally were. I think that’s why they get along so well, sort of like an ex-girlfriend I once had. - The dog has the potential to ruin the show. If, seven years from now, the moral of the story is “yes, even Vulcans like beagles,” I will be sorely disappointed. - I’m still not sure what a “boomer” is, but the helmsman apparently is one. He’s an “introduction to technology” prop. I have a feeling that this means we’ll see a lot of, “yes, I saw this control interface on an interactive video game on Syphillis 4.” - I am disappointed that the transporter has already been used. If this series goes the way of Voyager, we can no doubt expect to have a transporter that only works perfectly in conjunction with a ten-second countdown. - The conclusion of the show seemed to imply that Enterprise’s mission was to explore atypical worlds–not habitable by humans. This is a great idea, because it allows for Year One special effects while remaining (somewhat) consistent with the ST universe. - Um, the action scenes sucked. While that’s not unusual at all, I was hoping for something a little better than a shaky camera on a dark set. - _We all fail as Trekkers._ Not one of you has explained, much less asked, what the Klingon Chieftain said to the captain at the end of the show. 10,000+ geeks on this board, and _not one_ speaks Klingon? Shame on all of us! ---
**Author:** ![Psi\_Cop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c57346/32.png) [@Psi\_Cop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Psi_Cop)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2001, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-love-it-or-hate-it/84037/91 "2001-09-28T00:35:52Z")
Anyone have it taped? I do, and when I went to watch it again today, I clearly heard what the Klingon said when he first stepped into the council chamber: “Me got porno!” I’m serious – that’s what it really sounds like, although I didn’t hear it the first time around. About the theme music… I really love it, and I really love the credit sequence. The problem is that it isn’t really _Star Trek_. It’s a great theme, and my favorite ever since Season 5 of Babylon 5, but it isn’t quite apprpriate for ST. Regardless of whether or not you liked _Voyager_, by the way, you have to admit it had a _really_ good credit/opening sequence. -Psi Cop ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2001, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-love-it-or-hate-it/84037/92 "2001-09-28T01:19:13Z")
My response to the opening music was similar to Troi’s when the [Douwd](http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/st-tng/episodes/151.html) put that music box music in her head. As for my overall impression: I thought it was pretty damn lame, but then again, so was the first episode of TNG, lest we forget: “Can you read my mind?” ::vomits:: I give it a year or so to have maybe two or three good episodes, then maybe it will shape up next season. ---
**Author:** ![Hekcorps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/87869e/32.png) [@Hekcorps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hekcorps)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2001, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-love-it-or-hate-it/84037/93 "2001-09-28T01:21:56Z")
Well, after dealing with emotional humans for years, I’d imagine the Vulcans would be pretty exasperated by now. Archer even points this out to the Vulcan Ambassador. I like the tensions between Earth and the Vulcans. “Rigel” could mean different things to different people. It would be ‘Earth-centric’ to assume it was the earth name for a star. Human contact with forehead ridge klingons, but 100+ years later they forget they had ridges, then they come back? Opening theme? **NO.** Gel scene = unsubtle, desperate attempt to inject sex into the show. Introducing new aliens which haven’t been seen in the 24th century? Don’t, please. New ship looks cool. WHY did Archer not go back to the ship with the Klingon? WHY WHY WHY??? NO REASON!! I don’t mind the time travel device. Transporting a moving live human? I think a Boomer is someone who’s lived in space a lot. I don’t know the history of that term, sorry. I could stand to se more of the show. Babylon 5 rules. ---
**Author:** ![urban1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d07c76/32.png) [@urban1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/urban1)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2001, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-love-it-or-hate-it/84037/94 "2001-09-28T02:44:11Z")
Generally, I liked the show. If I had taped it, I would isolate the scene where Scott Bakula is parading around in his underwear and loop it. Much nicer than the semi-nude scene with the vulcan chick. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Hekcorps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/87869e/32.png) [@Hekcorps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hekcorps)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2001, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-love-it-or-hate-it/84037/95 "2001-09-28T03:33:43Z")
There seem to be a good number more females on here than the last place… ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2001, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-love-it-or-hate-it/84037/96 "2001-09-28T03:51:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fiver \* > \*\ ***bafaa** : > > > [@](#): > > > > I’m pretty sure they handed out translator devices before they left the ship that could translate “Rigelian(?)” \*\* > > Even though they’d never heard of Rigel before? And even though even with the Klingon they didn’t have instantaneous vocal translation?\*\* Um…did you watch the show? The Vulcans were\* familiar with Rigel. And, despite her apparent distaste with the idea of aiding the humans, T’Pal (T’Pol?) was there, and was the obvious source for the info on Rigelian and Rigel 10. Why the translators couldn’t work for Klang… Either the T’Pal thought that it was unneccessary, or else the translators are too primitive to deal with a language as complex as Klingon. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2001, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-love-it-or-hate-it/84037/97 "2001-09-28T04:18:05Z")
Did anyone notice that in Corchrane’s speach, it went “to go boldly where …”? They finally got it right! Maybe this is like Armstrong’s “one small step for [a] man”. And Farmer Hodges invented the warp drive! ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2001, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-love-it-or-hate-it/84037/98 "2001-09-28T04:30:14Z")
Viva’s two cents’: I liked it. It has a very different “Feel” from TNG and Voy. Raw, rough, cramped, clunky, they’re still working things out on the ship, and I didn’t mind a different kind of music for the theme, though the song they used wasn’t too hot. I taped it for my brother and will have to look at the tape again re: those freeze glitches, but I do not remember seeing them while watching the show. I also noticed that the actors seem to have more leeway as to how they can move around, interact with each other, and deliver their lines. The premiere marks the first time in the history of ST that the words “ass,” “butt,” “son of a bitch,” and “toilet” were all used within the same episode. 😉 Even the uniforms are dramatically different from the ones I’d gotten used to seeing over the past twelve years, and it’s a good change. The doc did remind me a lot of Neelix. I hope they’ll modify that. A ship’s dog? That’s a first in the ST universe. I liked the conflicts among the characters. Enjoyed the show and will continue watching. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2001, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-love-it-or-hate-it/84037/99 "2001-09-28T04:53:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by vivalostwages \* > **Even the uniforms are dramatically different from the ones I’d gotten used to seeing over the past twelve years, and it’s a good change.** Pockets! Lots and lots of pockets! ^\_\_^;;; (Sorry for the snottiness of my earlier reply…I’d just got off work and work always makes me a little surly.) ---
**Author:** ![Kaitlyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/73ab20/32.png) [@Kaitlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaitlyn)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2001, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-love-it-or-hate-it/84037/100 "2001-09-28T05:17:41Z")
The translators couldn’t handle the Klingon’s language because he spoke one of 80 distinct Klingon dialects. Imagine trying to speak to someone from Hong Kong (who speak Cantonese) through a Mandarin translator and you get the idea. I took the “more highly evolved” Sulibans to mean that the guy from the future was helping to introduce advantageous characteristics that they would eventually evolve on their own. To describe them as being “more highly evolved” communicates this idea fairly well, even if it is not technically correct. Dr. Phlox, who is the only biology expert, doesn’t refer to this as evolution, but something like genetic engineering. The “humans evolved from apes” smirk wasn’t some kind of creationist dig. I took it to mean something like, “You may have evolved from apes, but _we_ evolved from some really cool creature.” The “suliban are no more evolved than humans” was similar. It’s more like two little boys arguing about who has the cooler ancestors than debating the semantics of evolutionary biology. Am I the only one who noticed that Dr. Phlox looks a lot like a Cardassian? I suspect the identity of the leader from the future hasn’t been worked out yet. Better to keep people guessing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-love-it-or-hate-it/84037.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-love-it-or-hate-it/84037.md?page=6)