# Enterprise: North Star Spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 12, 2003, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-north-star-spoilers/212753 "2003-11-12T03:08:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Wearia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/13edae/32.png) [@Wearia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wearia)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2003, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-north-star-spoilers/212753/41 "2003-11-13T05:35:38Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by NoClueBoy \* > \*\* > The story… (didn’t SG-1 do something like this?)_\* Come to think of it, yes they did. Almost exactly the same story. Less western elements. Plus the aliens that the humans were enslaved by and then overthrew (the Unas) were then enslaved by the humans then bred and sold etc. The Skags were just second class citizens, not slaves. Still, a lot of parallels between the two plots. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2003, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-north-star-spoilers/212753/42 "2003-11-13T05:40:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by carnivorousplant \* > **It is a Western setting because the people were kidnapped 300 years ago. The setting is to explain social mores and actions rather than for the plot.** And it also makes no sense. The typical Western town had the look-and-feel that it did because they were _hastily-erected settlements_. Men (not women) came their in droves to make their fortune or to set up businesses to cater to folks passing through on their way to the west coast. They got all their hard-to-make items from shipments that came from the major population centers back east. The few womenfolk who came to these small towns were either maidservants or prostitutes, while most “respectable” women stayed back east. There were almost no children because the men who came to these Western towns came there alone, without a wife or family in tow (settlers with families typically set up their homestead out on the prairie, away from the Western towns). In short, **most small American towns during the mid-to-late 19th century didn’t resemble Western-movie-towns in the slightest.** They were populated primarily by families. Most folk didn’t wear cowboy hats. Lynchings and gunfights were not a daily occurrence. If these people were abducted from 19th century America – even the 19th century American west – they would establish towns that resembled the small, self-sufficient rural settlements of the 19th century, **not** the Western towns where you can hear the whistling of the theme music from _The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly_ every time you take a step. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2003, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-north-star-spoilers/212753/43 "2003-11-13T05:41:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by randwill \* > **…Earthlings were abducted 200-300 years ago and spirited off to this new planet. But their offspring would have progressed technologically during that time just like we did. They were the dominant species. Why haven’t they developed space flight? It’s earthlings on an earth-like planet, there development would be similar to ours. Unless I missed something. Did the aliens pick and choose the dumbest earthlings to kidnap…** Unless the show gave you a detailed explanation of the terrain surrounding the settlement and a good idea of the socio-economic mores of their society, there is no guessing as to how they might have progressed in 300 years except that it’s almost garaunteed that it was very, _very_ slow considering the low population count. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2003, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-north-star-spoilers/212753/44 "2003-11-13T07:19:44Z")
I really enjoyed it, and I don’t usually bother with Westerns or things Western-tinged. –“Skags” is such a derogatory term; fits right in with the racism of the hoomans without beating us over the head with it a la “Stigma.” –The light looked freaky but I got used to it. Still, it reminded me of the bizarro sunlight we had here when the fires were raging. –They did that weird camera speeding-up-the-fifth-frame (?) thing again when the MACO went over the fence. Remember it from “Anomaly” ? –Was Archer’s hat too big or were they all like that back then? –T’Pol is an adroit liar. “Our horses…perished…” –Livery guy had no fear of Trip-cooties. But I don’t suppose these folks knew what germs were either. –Of course, they had to Pandify the schoolmarm just a bit in Sickbay by exposing her navel. –Loved the “horse’s ass” remark. –I missed the “Fuck” comment; will take another look. –Reed was great in that final double-shot. –Shouldn’t Archer and Deputy Dick have been covered in horse crap after rolling around in the hay? (!) –Travis’ new name: Ensign Oneliner. \*Praise to David A. Goodman for his writing. Speaking of Trip-cooties…Check out baby Trip in the teaser for next week’s “Similitude.” Maybe we’ll get lucky and he’ll spit up all over Archer. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2003, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-north-star-spoilers/212753/45 "2003-11-13T07:43:18Z")
Oops, NCB already mentioned the navel. Well, I was skimming. I’m not sure if they’re still stuck at the 39-minute limit like they were last season, but if they’d had another five minutes or so like some of the previous series, we would have had more exposition. Or Panda. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2003, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-north-star-spoilers/212753/46 "2003-11-13T07:45:59Z")
Panda exhibitionists? ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2003, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-north-star-spoilers/212753/47 "2003-11-13T07:47:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tars Tarkas \* > \*\*Trip: They lose me right after the bunker scene > Mayweather: Excuse me while i whip this out! \*\* Oh, _that’s_ why they left Trav on the ship. Somebody was afraid he’d go Cleavon Little on them. “Do what he saaay! Do what he saaaaaay!” ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2003, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-north-star-spoilers/212753/48 "2003-11-13T08:23:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tracer \* > \*\*And it also makes no sense. > . \*\* Quiet, you, before i sick the space nazi’s or space gansters or space romans on you! ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2003, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-north-star-spoilers/212753/49 "2003-11-13T08:27:35Z")
the episode was better than i thought it would be. Loved the shoot the hostage. And Deputy Dawg said “Fsssskkk!!” I was waiting for the schoolteacher to go all Carrie on the Humans. Cons: Needed more Hoshi. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2003, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-north-star-spoilers/212753/50 "2003-11-13T13:13:05Z")
Per the panda teacher who was 1/4 “skag”, I always marvel at how very closely related species in the real world can’t procreate (ie chimps-humans) because of complex genetic issues, but in the Trek universe when two far flung species fall in love they can commence to making babies. Love does conquer all! ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2003, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-north-star-spoilers/212753/51 "2003-11-13T14:00:17Z")
I was wondering if anybody else noticed that the schoolmarm looked exceptionally sexy with pigs blood al over her. Sex with a telekenetic woman sounds like a whole mess of fun! * * * I think the severe isolation might have played into the lack of technological developement. Tho they knew of things from the old Skags, they had no competition for new ideas. No cooperation with scientists from Europe or the East Coast. I liked the denoument showing the humans catching up with the rest of humanity. “In 1903, the Wright brothers built a flying machine. Who wants to see what their aeroplane looks like?” She shouldaben wearing a fishnet bodysuit when she said that, tho… ---
**Author:** ![ddgryphon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8c91f0/32.png) [@ddgryphon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ddgryphon)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2003, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-north-star-spoilers/212753/52 "2003-11-13T15:26:04Z")
Hey – I really liked this episode and have pretty much been watching it on automatic – nothing really affecting seems to happen and despite soul bearing moments, we never seem to get to the heart of these characters. . It’s like they’re afraid to tell a real story (not that Trek has ever really been good at that, in general). At least I felt the characters really felt something this episode. ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Daddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Bruce\_Daddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Daddy)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2003, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-north-star-spoilers/212753/53 "2003-11-13T15:29:13Z")
Is it just me or are T’Pol’s breast getting smaller? Like, every episode? The big granny bra of the first season was a joke, but damn. [Arnold] Not dat is mattarz so much 'cause I am a fan of da azz. [/Arnold] ---
**Author:** ![Corner\_Case](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/corner_case/32/234_2.png) [@Corner\_Case](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corner_Case)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2003, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-north-star-spoilers/212753/54 "2003-11-13T15:32:12Z")
Good solid episode. It has the simple ring of truth about it. Archer’s brooding fits well as a cowboy. I think by borrowing all of the “western” genre they automatically gave themselves a fully-developed episode in which to interact. The reality of 19th-century western towns aside, we can say that a small population has limited chances of advancement because of limited new ideas. Also, the population is 6000 now but could have been significantly less (or more) when abducted. Cooper Smith seems to have led the revolt and destroyed all the “bad” technology like _“Omega Man”_. We could say that they recreated the town because that was a memory all the original abductees had of what things were “supposed” to be like. The population being dispersed we can imagine a different look and feel to farms and ranches and other settlements. I felt the monotones and mistrust were typical of frontier-town movie westerns. However it is hard to see Bethany trusting Archer after so brief a discourse to show him the Skag school. She heard about Archer intervening with the saloon-skag, so this makes him trustworthy? It would have been better for Archer to follow her and pop up. Then he could blame himself for leading the deputy to the school. You see the deputy’s comments seem to say that he has warned Bethany in the past about helping Skags, but why jail her now instead of earlier? The sheriff is a pragmatic man but historically suspicious of Skags and a stickler for the law. She would have been jailed. It would seem to character for the deputy to think he could get enough evidence on her to force an unreportable rape. On to the nitpicking. The episode was good but nitpicking is fun:[ul][li]_re: **viva** _; The long blue lights at night were either bad lighting or a subtle point that “you ain’t in Kansas no more”.[_]Did the long shot of the town through the rocks look like the same long shot in Blazing Saddles?[_]Even setting up a whole new economy, an old-west horse still costs around $20.[_]Trip was cute trying to ride.[_]Why the camera focus on T’Pol fiddling with those transparent data modules?[_]Why is it that when you steal a buggy and need to escape - You Ride Directly Through The Center Of Town?[_]Archer didn’t say to start transport, but oh well.[_]re: **astro** ; Good point about the difficulty of interbreeding. So let’s say the Skagarans travelled all those light years looking for 1) slaves 2) compatible with the environment that can be 3) bred. Baa Baa Baa.[_]Mayweather gets a “single line”.[_]The shuttlepod flying around the last building didn’t reappear at the correct angle according to when it disappeared behind it.[_]When MacReady was shot he was hit in the shoulder. His shoulder line was parallel to the street and the deputy was down the street, so the bullet would have to have made a 90-degree turn to hit him.[_]Notice how all the townsfolk scatter in random directions to fill the shot instead of just away from the shooter?[_]Why is it when shooters miss that the bullet kicks up dust at a person’s feet? That would mean the aim (or velocity) were woefully inadequate.[_]Good use by Archer shooting that 2nd floor balcony! And he does corrrectly change settings between stun and burn.[_]Boy, Archer is _ **really** _ the MAN!. He can take a penetrating shoulder gunshot and still keep running. He can fight a frontiersman one-handed and win! I’d like to see a puny Vulcan do that![_]Reed shot T’Pol! Perfectly logical! I’ve been waiting a long time for someone to use a phaser that way![_]However, when Reed gets T’Pol’s kidnapper’s gun, I wish he would have thrown it more than 2 feet away on the other side of that fence.[/ul]----------------[/li]The teaser for next week is really from a great Spin Doctor! We see T’Pol kiss Trip; the narrator says that Trip has a surprise (or something); Then Phlox with a baby, and T’Pol and Archer watching. Sibliminally suggesting that T’Pol has Trip’s baby! ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2003, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-north-star-spoilers/212753/55 "2003-11-13T15:47:16Z")
Really? The preview here had Trip dying. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2003, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-north-star-spoilers/212753/56 "2003-11-13T16:02:10Z")
Which, of course, would be a good career move for both the actor and his character. ---
**Author:** ![Corner\_Case](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/corner_case/32/234_2.png) [@Corner\_Case](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corner_Case)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2003, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-north-star-spoilers/212753/57 "2003-11-13T16:06:22Z")
I think that dying is a rather limiting career move. T’Pol is probably giving a kiss to the Trip-clone for some outlandish reason and the baby is of course Baby-Trip. You know, breastfeeding is much better than using formula for proper growth and development. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2003, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-north-star-spoilers/212753/58 "2003-11-13T16:08:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by astro \* > **I always marvel at how very closely related species in the real world can’t procreate (ie chimps-humans) because of complex genetic issues,** Actually, we don’t know if humans and chimps can interbreed or not. We’ve never done cross-breeding experiments, mostly because we’re too skittish about the ethical issues. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2003, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-north-star-spoilers/212753/59 "2003-11-13T16:18:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Corner Case \* > **Boy, Archer is _really_ the MAN!. He can take a penetrating shoulder gunshot and still keep running. He can fight a frontiersman one-handed and win!** Yeah, and he can get K.O.'d by one lousy punch from the Deputy in their first fight. ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2003, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-north-star-spoilers/212753/60 "2003-11-13T16:21:08Z")
eh. feh. meh. I was unmoved. B-, only because they didn’t try to pull any parallel evolution crap on us. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-north-star-spoilers/212753.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-north-star-spoilers/212753.md?page=4)