# Enterprise Spoilers-Strom Front **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 8, 2004, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-spoilers-strom-front/268137 "2004-10-08T02:01:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-spoilers-strom-front/268137/61 "2004-10-12T02:54:27Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > So love me while you can. 🙂 Looking for hot, time-travelling, Nazi lizard love in all the wrong places? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![drewbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drewbert/32/15890_2.png) [@drewbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewbert)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-spoilers-strom-front/268137/62 "2004-10-12T03:03:14Z")
Y’know, I even [offered](http://drewbert.blogspot.com/2004/06/regarding-zero-hour.html) Manny Coto a script outline for this episode so he could get out of this Nazi stuff, but did he take it? Noooo… [sub]Pinch hitting for Pedro Borbon… Mannnnyyyy… Coto coto coto coto…[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-spoilers-strom-front/268137/63 "2004-10-12T03:08:34Z")
Hell, Drewbert, good stuff. ---
**Author:** ![drewbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drewbert/32/15890_2.png) [@drewbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewbert)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-spoilers-strom-front/268137/64 "2004-10-12T04:30:04Z")
thanks, **cplant**! ---
**Author:** ![Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bambi_Hassenpfeffer)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-spoilers-strom-front/268137/65 "2004-10-12T04:40:35Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I hesitate to ask, but isn’t that Brit for “jam” or “jelly”? It’s a kind of molasses, made from sugar cane instead of sorghum. BTW, if the Nazis are winning, does that mean the Edith Keeler is still alive 😕 I’m with **Cervaise** on all this – Señor Coto gets a bit of time to fix the Bermaga legacy, so I’m withholding judgment until his own voice comes out. We’ll see in a bit. Oh, and I kinda missed y’all too. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-spoilers-strom-front/268137/66 "2004-10-12T04:45:42Z")
I don’t think so. Didn’t she keep the US out of the war entirely? If so, the Remanazis wouldn’t be in America at all. Must be an alternate timeline. ---
**Author:** ![Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bambi_Hassenpfeffer)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-spoilers-strom-front/268137/67 "2004-10-12T05:32:45Z")
Yeah, I think you’re right. I just think it’s funny that we’re back on the Nazis. I’m getting so irritated with ST time travel episodes – Voyager about buried that as a viable plot device long ago. My only consolation is that the German they’ve used here and there seems to be accurate enough. I keep my ST needs fulfilled with my 2x daily DS9 on TiVo – they’re setting in motion the series’ endgame right now, with the (spoilered just in case, though I know you know it) Breen entry into the war and Damar’s turning on the Dominion. today. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-spoilers-strom-front/268137/68 "2004-10-12T05:39:33Z")
Heh… living on the Pacific Coast and having satellite, I get DS9 at 8:00 and 9:00am and I actually get up thirty minutes early (my shift used to be 8:30 to 4:30 but is now 8:00 to 4:30 because of the schedule change) to get over to **Gr8Kat** ’s house so I can tape them and watch them every day. I didn’t watch the wedding episode today though. Fell asleep around 11:00 and didn’t wake up well enough to focus on the TV until 3:30 or so by which time The Daily Show was about to come on. I love my job. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-spoilers-strom-front/268137/69 "2004-10-12T06:03:30Z")
> [@Bambi Hassenpfeffer](#): > > Yeah, I think you’re right. I just think it’s funny that we’re back on the Nazis. I’m getting so irritated with ST time travel episodes… How come no one ever goes back in time and discovers the Athenians all speaking Persian, or finds an Aztec Temple to the Sun (complete with human sacrifices) in the middle of 16th century Madrid, or France is part of the Great Mongol Empire? It’s always Nazis, Nazis, Nazis. ---
**Author:** ![Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bambi_Hassenpfeffer)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-spoilers-strom-front/268137/70 "2004-10-12T07:11:47Z")
I don’t know why it’s always the 19 or 20th centuries. Well, I do (dramatic convenience), but it’s still irritating. Like in _ST: First Contact_, why wouldn’t the Borg just assimilate Earth circa AD 1500? It woulda been a _lot_ easier, no? It may be related to the same sort of decision-making that leads to the Borg’s vulnerability to projectile weapons. Terrifying force of nature, but not a very smart people. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-spoilers-strom-front/268137/71 "2004-10-12T12:17:04Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > Must be an alternate timeline. Given the _The City on the Edge of Forever_ “All is now as it once was” or words to that effect; The changes in the episode with the F104 pilot from TOS, I don’t think Trek goes with the _Back to the Future_ theory of alternate time lines. See also the Voyager reset button. _Yesterday’s Enterprise_ from TNG and the episode with two Janeways from STV, on the other hand, _do_ indicate the alternate time line. The wide use of the reset button in Voyager, on the other hand, leads creedence to the theory that things change back to the way they were and that another time line is not produced. There is also the alternate dimension on _Mirror, Mirror_. Perhaps rather than an alternate time line, those episodes mentioned above involve some interdimensional travel as well. Of course, all authors should have been required to be vaguely familiar with canon of how time travel works in Trek. ---
**Author:** ![NE\_Texan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e99b99/32.png) [@NE\_Texan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NE_Texan)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-spoilers-strom-front/268137/72 "2004-10-12T13:15:08Z")
I saw it last night. Wasn’t great, wasn’t bad. Two things bugged me. One, what’s with the “Aryan forever” pure-race Germans trusting these ET aliens that don’t even look human? And two, shouldn’t they make some effort explaining away the US’s atomic weapons research? Unlike the real world, it seems there would be reason to use it against Germany in that timeline. I’m also curious about them getting Back – to the Future! (Oops, sorry, wrong movie.) Anyway, with Daniels dead, and on the planet, it’s taking a huge freaking time tunnel to travel back, how is the ship getting back? Bets on the location of said time tunnel? I’m thinking it’s in the NY city subway system. It has the space, it’s near US raw materials, the aliens are shown to be in NY, and we’ve seen that the subways are closed. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-spoilers-strom-front/268137/73 "2004-10-12T13:42:31Z")
> [@NE Texan](#): > > One, what’s with the “Aryan forever” pure-race Germans trusting these ET aliens that don’t even look human? They mad a case for the Japanese being Aryan. Go figure. > [@NE Texan](#): > > Unlike the real world, it seems there would be reason to use it against Germany in that timeline. It was planned for use against the Nazis. The Allies won the war in Europe before it was ready. > [@NE Texan](#): > > how is the ship getting back? The Enterprise? I figure the reset button will come into play. > [@NE Texan](#): > > Bets on the location of said time tunnel? I’m thinking it’s in the NY city subway system. They show the DCU looking at it. Was that the NY subway? If not, did the Nazis build the structure? One of the columns is labeld “17”, and I wonder if the Germans put a bar on 7s like the French did. Do. Whatever. I hate this time travel stuff. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-spoilers-strom-front/268137/74 "2004-10-12T13:48:56Z")
They won’t have to actually do any time travel at all. All they need to do is trigger the Big Fucking Star Trek Reset Button™ of _Voyager_ fame. Hell, it’s almost as sacred a cow as Jesus’ ressurection now to the Star Trek franchise. Tiring, baby, tiring. I’ll wager that destroying the NAZI alien time machine doohickey will be enough to trigger the BFSTRB™. As for why is it always 20th (or 21st - 22nd) century that Futuros always make it back to… Well, obviously the taming of the atom has quite a bit to do with it. Causing some sort of temporal fluxamathingy, don’t ya know. Yarr. At least, that’s how I recall it being postulated in some book that may (or may not) have been a Trek novel. Discuss. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-spoilers-strom-front/268137/75 "2004-10-12T13:56:25Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > it’s almost as sacred a cow as Jesus’ ressurection I think you’re mixing your metaphors. Or major religions. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-spoilers-strom-front/268137/76 "2004-10-12T14:05:21Z")
At least I wasn’t quoting the Church of Latter Day Neo Pagan’s Mishnah. (Tao Shintoist Animistic revisionists!) Good thing, too. Those guys are WEIRD! :eek: When was the first successful atomsy dealy? Didn’t Booby-O have some sort of small scale fission before the first Arizona test? Maybe heavy water concentrations are enough to trigger the timeline flux. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-spoilers-strom-front/268137/77 "2004-10-12T14:36:47Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > Maybe heavy water concentrations are enough to trigger the timeline flux. More likely chlorine in the drinking water. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-spoilers-strom-front/268137/78 "2004-10-12T14:45:31Z")
> [@Bambi Hassenpfeffer](#): > > It may be related to the same sort of decision-making that leads to the Borg’s vulnerability to projectile weapons. Terrifying force of nature, but not a very smart people. We saw that happen once, which using what we know of the Borg means that they just hadn’t had a chance to adapt but would have eventually. I mean, really, do you think they’re going to allow kinetic energy weapons to affect them when even their normal shields don’t allow micrometeors through? If they’d kept using submachinge guns, they’d’ve eventually failed too. ---
**Author:** ![Corner\_Case](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/corner_case/32/234_2.png) [@Corner\_Case](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corner_Case)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-spoilers-strom-front/268137/79 "2004-10-12T16:03:07Z")
Returned from vacation and missed most of it because of that and my stupid mistake with the VCR. Before I read anyone else’s posts, I’ll comment. o I felt the characters hadn’t changed - which is to be expected, but I guess I was waiting for all the flaws to be magically erased in Season 4 🙂 o I liked having the street scenes and sets that are not just the metal walss of a spaceship. o Having the mob fight the resistance seems logical since they wouldn’t want anyone muscling in on their territory. o The 1940’s still had racial prejudice so having Alicia be a focal point doesn’t seem to fit the times. o A brief glance at a map shows the American Front past Pennsyvania, Virginia, and some of the Carolinas (I think). Getting the steel mills would help, but I always thought it was too difficult to establish an American Front because the supply lines would be too long and vulnerable to setup a beachhead. o Archer is still his stoic self; T’Pol still fighting back the emotions. o I don’t understand how (according to Daniels) that stopping Vosk in the changed past would restore the timeline. ---
**Author:** ![Corner\_Case](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/corner_case/32/234_2.png) [@Corner\_Case](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corner_Case)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-spoilers-strom-front/268137/80 "2004-10-12T16:44:06Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > More likely chlorine in the drinking water. It’s the flouridation. They are trying to sap our precious bodily fluids. We must preserve the Purity Of our arryan Essence! [sub]What? Flouridation began in the '50s? Oh, never mind.[/sub] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-spoilers-strom-front/268137.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-spoilers-strom-front/268137.md?page=5)