# Enterprise Storm Front 2 Spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 15, 2004, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-storm-front-2-spoilers/269358 "2004-10-15T12:26:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-storm-front-2-spoilers/269358/61 "2004-10-17T22:55:23Z")
You clowns are going to be sorry when Silik shows up (remember, Daniels died too, Heisenber Compensator Breath!) and asks, “OK, what A-hole made the crack about Rice Krispies ™?” ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-storm-front-2-spoilers/269358/62 "2004-10-17T23:01:50Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > You clowns are going to be sorry when Silik shows up (remember, Daniels died too, Heisenber Compensator Breath!) and asks, “OK, what A-hole made the crack about Rice Krispies ™?” Pssst…it was Archer!! ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-storm-front-2-spoilers/269358/63 "2004-10-17T23:04:06Z")
Someone explain this to me, please: How did killing Vosk (did I get the villains name right?) in 194x restore the timeline, if it had already diverged when Lenin was assinated in 1916? Wouldn’t they have needed to go back and stop the assasination of Lenin? Or were we supposed to understand that Vosk was going to go back and kill Lenin at some later point in his life, only now he couldn’t because he was dead? (If that’s the case, it seems kind of weird that when he was in ninteen fourty-whatever history was already changed, even though he hadn’t yet changed it.) Or were we just supposed to understand that killing him somehow restored the timeline, for reasons to complicated for our 20th century minds to understand. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-storm-front-2-spoilers/269358/64 "2004-10-17T23:06:17Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > Or were we just supposed to understand that killing him somehow restored the timeline, for reasons to complicated for our 20th century minds to understand. :dubious: Technically, I guess we now have 21st century minds. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-storm-front-2-spoilers/269358/65 "2004-10-17T23:22:29Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > Technically, I guess we now have 21st century minds. :smack: Well, some of us do. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-storm-front-2-spoilers/269358/66 "2004-10-17T23:30:40Z")
Perhaps Vosk existed in some sort of temporal flux as a probability waveform? Then, killing him at any point in time outside of his own reality collapses the waveform, resetting the timeline. ??? See!? That’s just type of crap that we all must avoid in the future when we gain control of the Trek franchise. There is no answer to **tim** ’s question because it’s too damn hard to write four fucking seasons of time travel shit without causing all sorts of internal inconsistancies. Very good question, btw. Showed up the problem with Bergama’s concept and allowed me to say the F word in a Cafe thread. ;j ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-storm-front-2-spoilers/269358/67 "2004-10-17T23:52:34Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > I will reserve any real, critical comment about Manny’s performance until after I see something that he didn’t inherit from B&B. What he said. I was so bored with this episode I fired up Civ III about midway through and kept only half an eye on the tee-vee from that point forward. I glanced up for the (too) brief eye candy of the starship over New York, and I was mildly amused at seeing the Silik actor without makeup (I love that stuff: same with the DS9 episode about the SF writer in the 1950s, and the whole supporting cast showing their unlatexed faces), but otherwise this was a paint-by-numbers effort to get out of the Idiot Hole the Bermaga stuck the show in at the end of last season for a giggle. Now it’s up to Manny. Go get 'em, guy. Make us proud. Or at least not bored. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-storm-front-2-spoilers/269358/68 "2004-10-18T00:19:32Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > Or were we supposed to understand that Vosk was going to go back and kill Lenin at some later point in his life, only now he couldn’t because he was dead? My take on it was that Vosk was yet to do The Awfull Thing, be it kill Linien or shoot a dinosaur. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-storm-front-2-spoilers/269358/69 "2004-10-18T00:55:29Z")
But, remember what Malcolm said. I’m paraphrasing, so if I have it wrong, fix it. He said, “We’ve been able to narrow it down as to when this timeline diverged. In 1916, Lenin was assasinated. The Soviet Union never came into being, thus Hitler never thought of Russia as a threat and used all his resources on the West.” Or the essence thereof . The important thiung being, he was using past tense. Those things had already happened. He did imply that it was temporal agent that did the deed, but how could be sure? Anyways, past tense. Lenin was gone way prior to the Nazi invasion of D.C. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-storm-front-2-spoilers/269358/70 "2004-10-18T01:22:09Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > In 1916, Lenin was assasinated. One presumes that Imperial Russia would still have the treatys with France, and Hitler wouldn’t have done as well as he did in the real time line. Was the assasination the critical point for the TCW? It was for the fault in the 1940 time line, but I thought there was something else that lost the TCW that preventing Vosk from leaving 1940 stopped. Admiral Forrest mentioned last season that the sister ship of Enterprise would be ready soon. Did we see her in the flotilla greeting Enterprise on her return to Earth? There was a ship that looked very much like her. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-storm-front-2-spoilers/269358/71 "2004-10-18T03:05:17Z")
Yes, we’ll be seeing another ship like the NX-01; I know I read that somewhere. Looking forward to a bit of rivalry. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-storm-front-2-spoilers/269358/72 "2004-10-18T03:58:42Z")
That the ship is NX class still pisses me off. It’s one of the few continuity errors that REALLY bugs me and I refuse to apologize for. It’s just sloppy writing and disdainful dismissal of the history of the franchise. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-storm-front-2-spoilers/269358/73 "2004-10-18T05:47:38Z")
I was slightly bugged at the whole “Killing Lenin” making a stronger Nazi Germany. Didn’t Hitler get a lot of his steam from the mere existance of a Huge Communist State lurking to the East, with which he could rally his fellow Germans into a frenzy? I No Lenin implies no Stalin at the very least, if not no Soviet Union, and without the Soviet Union, the Nazi Party may have never come to power at all. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-storm-front-2-spoilers/269358/74 "2004-10-18T06:23:20Z")
> [@vivalostwages](#): > > T’Pol’s mother’s name is T’Les. Was T’Pol’s mother’s sister named T’More? ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-storm-front-2-spoilers/269358/75 "2004-10-18T06:29:08Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > One presumes that Imperial Russia would still have the treatys with France, The thing is, Imperial (Tsarist) Russia came to an end months before Lenin even came onto the scene. It’s not that without Lenin, Russia would still be ruled by the Tsars or anything – without Lenin, Russia might have ended up being ruled by the intermediary vaguely-democratic government that came to power immediately after the Tsars collapsed (you know, the government with the White Army). If the red-eyed Nazi aliens **really** wanted to change the time line, they should’ve convinced the White Army government to withdraw from World War I. The decision to stay in WW1 spread Russia’s resources so thin that there were bread line riots, and it was **those** that led to the takeover by the Red Army. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-storm-front-2-spoilers/269358/76 "2004-10-18T12:15:43Z")
> [@tracer](#): > > (Tsarist) Russia came to an end months before Lenin even came onto the scene. The Germans smuggled him back from exhile on a train. Was that after the revolution? ---
**Author:** ![Corner\_Case](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/corner_case/32/234_2.png) [@Corner\_Case](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corner_Case)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-storm-front-2-spoilers/269358/77 "2004-10-18T15:14:42Z")
_The difficulty with a Friday show that I won’t respond to until Monday. Anyway, here are my comments before being swayed by the peas… uh, populace. “I love you guys … pull!”_ Banter. Repartee. Dialogue. “His Girl Friday” always comes to mind as the best example of a breakneck script. It leaves you breathless. In science fiction I think of the original “Thing from Another World” - a good analogy for what Enterprise _could_ do by incorporating wit and banter into an otherwise serious {snicker} plot. Nowadays it’s “ER” and bits of “Farscape” that show what you can do. If they would only even let the actors ad lib in the gaps in the scenes to flesh out their characters. When Archer was meeting Vosk we had that beam-into-woods-truck-driving-on-road scene and an interminable wait for some dialogue. Did they look at the script and realize, “Oops, we need some filler.”? Then we have the enter-the-bridge-and-go-to-the-command-chair-before-talking kind of scene. So many places where extra exposition, character definement, or background could be placed. [ul][li]When Vosk was talking to the German officer and ended when “I can erase you from history” I really thought the guy should say, “History, shmistery” _because Everyone speaks English and so can rhyme in English_, pull out his revolver, say, “Erase this!”, and put a bullet in his head. ;)[_]I liked the fake newsreel at the start - that was cute. :)[_]I liked Alicia saying, “wipe out every last one and start with Berlin.” That was a logical sentiment. 🙂 But then Archer and Alicia are given that crappy dialogue - “We’ll stop them another way” _No Details_ “Guess you know what you’re doin.” No, but then neither does anyone else. :([_]Hey Vosk, and all other project leaders - don’t tell techs to run diagnostics after a test - They Know To Do That! :([_]I can’t comment on the ramifications of killing Lenin in 1916.[_]Since the transporter effect can begin and then allow bullets to flit right through, they should have beamed Trip and Mayweather out Vosk’s hands once the truck cleared the shield. ;)[_]Silik didn’t think Phlox could detect analomalies in his disguise at such close range? :dubious:[_]Nice Silik escape, but the guards should have arrived sooner and been stationed outside the door.[_]“You’ve changed Captain” - “And not at all for the better” - Must … resist … sarcasm[_]How did the ships weapons go down after, but not immediately after, the ship was hit? Didn’t they fire in response to the hit and Then go down?[_]So some mobsters protected by a car can attack the fortified front gate of a Nazi installation on equal terms? What happened to Nazi grenades?[_]Why are there ALWAYS barrels to hide behind while shooting?[_]They lose their targetting array and have to drop out of orbit to better fire on the facility? So how’s manual targetting while flying by at 200kph better than shooting from geosynchronous orbit? :([\*]That final timescape fixing itself montage was Really Hokey.[/ul][/li] I’m glad the mini-arc is over. I want to see what Manny can do with less of Bergama’s shackles on him. Who’s idea was the wedding that doesn’t seem to have a solid basis? ---
**Author:** ![Corner\_Case](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/corner_case/32/234_2.png) [@Corner\_Case](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corner_Case)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-storm-front-2-spoilers/269358/78 "2004-10-18T15:45:02Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > The big question is: Daniels died. Does he remember dying? Does he know if we should be studying Torah all day, getting right with Jesus or giving money to the wearers of the Saffron robe? I’m just wild about saffron. And she’s just wild about me… ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-storm-front-2-spoilers/269358/79 "2004-10-18T16:06:01Z")
[QUOTE=Corner Case] [ul][li]Why are there ALWAYS barrels to hide behind while shooting?[/ul][/li][/QUOTE] Once, just once, I’d like 'em to be those barrels from DOOM that explode when they’re shot. It’d strongly discourage this practice thereafter. [QUOTE=Corner Case] [ul][li]They lose their targetting array and have to drop out of orbit to better fire on the facility? So how’s manual targetting while flying by at 200kph better than shooting from geosynchronous orbit? :([/ul][/li][/QUOTE] Angular size of a 100-meter wide facility from one kilometer away (flyby altitude): 5.7 degrees. Angular size of a 100-meter wide facility from 35,786 kilometers away (geosynchronous altitude): 0.00016 degrees. Which target do you think will be easier to hit? ---
**Author:** ![Corner\_Case](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/corner_case/32/234_2.png) [@Corner\_Case](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corner_Case)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-storm-front-2-spoilers/269358/80 "2004-10-18T16:15:41Z")
> [@tracer](#): > > Angular size of a 100-meter wide facility from one kilometer away (flyby altitude): 5.7 degrees. > > Angular size of a 100-meter wide facility from 35,786 kilometers away (geosynchronous altitude): 0.00016 degrees. > > Which target do you think will be easier to hit? A 5.7 degree object while travelling at 200kph would have to be like Luke’s Deathstar run, no? Versus a very small arc but one you didn’t have to track manually. I use a telescope and hit the moon but I have to keep turning the dials to have it in the scope. I couldn’t imagine doing that at 200kph. I’m no weapons expert and my physics is rusty. What’s easier? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-storm-front-2-spoilers/269358.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-storm-front-2-spoilers/269358.md?page=5)