# Enterprise Xindi spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 9, 2003, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-xindi-spoilers/200638 "2003-09-09T23:59:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-xindi-spoilers/200638/141 "2003-09-12T23:34:21Z")
The tape is on its way! I didn’t pay extra for Warp Postage (from CA to Aes’s state in 5 minutes or less), but it should arrive very soon. Ratings? Every time I check them in the paper, every damn show on UPN is low-rated. Ditto for everything on the WB. But they keep them around anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-xindi-spoilers/200638/142 "2003-09-13T05:15:13Z")
There’s a warp core breach in progress. I think **Aes** is about to explode. Tell those postal folks to hurry! ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-xindi-spoilers/200638/143 "2003-09-13T05:31:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NoClueBoy \* > \*\* > the predictable Navy vs marines mentality rears its ugly head. let’s hope they don’t use _that_ angle too much. :rolleyes: > \*\* Which is rather wierd considering certain crewmembers don’t seem to feel that Star Fleet is the de facto Navy of the federation. Which the references to “Military” culture as if Star fleet was something completely civilian. Methinks B&B should go back and watch the original series, where the enterprise was run like a Naval Vessal in many respects. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-xindi-spoilers/200638/144 "2003-09-13T05:46:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NoClueBoy \* > \*\*NOT Starfleet. Recall this exchange from last season (replayed in the teaser): > > InChargyGuy: “How do you feel about taking military with you?” > > Quantum: “I don’t mind having NON STARFLEET personel on board. Blah blah blah…” > > (or the essence thereof) > > In TNG, Roddenberry was always trying to say , mostly through Picard, that Starfleet wasn’t military. A major nit which actually got me in a Phil Farrand newsletter. > \*\* I was thinking the same thing, though in the Original series, the Enterprise seemed to have a lot of trappings of a Naval Vessal. So does Star Fleet start as a civilian outfit in Enterprise, become the Navy in TOS, and then go back to being Civilian in TNG? ---
**Author:** ![Linus\_Van\_Pelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@Linus\_Van\_Pelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linus_Van_Pelt)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-xindi-spoilers/200638/145 "2003-09-13T09:28:16Z")
I finally got to watch the episode this afternoon, so I can comment now. A few thoughts: Thanks for the birthday wishes **viva** & **Mr. B** and happy birthday to you as well **Mr. B**. The theme song: I’m one of the few people who didn’t hate the original theme song. It was somewhat wistful, yet hopeful and it did work well with the visuals (which I always thought were very well done). It might not have been to everyone’s tastes, but I never thought it was that bad. As for the new version, what the heck is this, _Enterprise Bandstand_? “Well Dick, I didn’t like, like the old song cause it was just kinda sad and stuff but the new one has a beat and I can dance to it.” I could understand if, conisdering the new, darker direction of the show, they wanted to change the theme song to make it a little more ominous and brooding, but come on, a drum machine and some guitars? I can just see the producers saying, “OK, the enterprise dudes are bad mamma-jammas now. What goes with bad-ass dudes like that? Let’s take that theme song and funk it up a little, get the kids interested.” Regarding the military question with Major Whatshis name and Lt. Reed, I asked a couple of friends from work who are ex-military and they confirmed what I suspected. Although the Major outranks Lt. Reed, Reed, due to his position, has authority over over him and while calling him “sir” would not be standard protocol, it’s not actually _incorrect_. As far as the actual “meat” of the episode, it wasn’t bad. I think that this was an episode that was meant to do two basic things. 1.) Set the basic tone as darker and grittier. 2.) Set up the long range story arc and introduce characters such as the special forces team (would that be a “spacial forces” team in this case?) and the Xindi counsel. This week’s panda, while… uh… visually appealing… was poorly executed. It felt as if it had been tacked onto the end of the “A” storyline. The capture/rescue story went along nicely, climaxed, then suddenly there’s 10 more minutes of panda, followed by the trip through the rockpile. Just poorly put together. Lastly, there’s the upcoming “North Star” episode, mentioned above. I think someone ought to send a note to the producers. Uh, guys, I know that Roddenberry pitched this as a “Wagon Train to the stars”, but I don’t think he meant that _literally_. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-xindi-spoilers/200638/146 "2003-09-13T13:33:33Z")
Oh, yeah… I forgot to wish you guys a happy birthday so happy belated, **viva** and **Linus**. Also, as someone who actually liked the old theme music, I’m already cringing at what the new one’s going to sound like. Am I the only Trek Doper who likes Reed? Sure, I wouldn’t want to hang out with him or anything but he seems like a nice enough guy when you get past the insecurities, the overbearingness, the… Oh. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-xindi-spoilers/200638/147 "2003-09-13T16:13:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Linus Van Pelt \* > \*\*Lastly, there’s the upcoming “North Star” episode, mentioned above. I think someone ought to send a note to the producers. Uh, guys, I know that Roddenberry pitched this as a “Wagon Train to the stars”, but I don’t think he meant that _literally_. \*\* TOS did have an Old West Gunfight episode. ---
**Author:** ![tarragon918](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d26b3c/32.png) [@tarragon918](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tarragon918)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-xindi-spoilers/200638/148 "2003-09-13T17:29:15Z")
[hijack] OMG!!! Happy birthday belatedly, Viva! So sorry! ☹ [/hijack] We now return to our regularly scheduled _Enterprise_ Thread 😉 ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-xindi-spoilers/200638/149 "2003-09-13T17:34:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jeff Olsen \* > \*\*TOS did have an Old West Gunfight episode. \*\* Yeah, but it was just a [Spectre](http://www.ericweisstein.com/fun/startrek/SpectreOfTheGun.html) of the Gun. :dubious: Hippo Birdy 2 Ewes (That’s not a shopping list. Read it out loud.) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-xindi-spoilers/200638/150 "2003-09-13T18:03:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NoClueBoy \* > \*\*Yeah, but it was just a [Spectre](http://www.ericweisstein.com/fun/startrek/SpectreOfTheGun.html) of the Gun. \*\* Sure, we know that _now_! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Linus\_Van\_Pelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@Linus\_Van\_Pelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linus_Van_Pelt)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2003, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-xindi-spoilers/200638/151 "2003-09-14T04:00:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jeff Olsen \* > \*\*TOS did have an Old West Gunfight episode. \*\* Yeah, yeah, spectre… guns… western… telepaths. I’m not one of these TOS haters like **Aesiron**. But when I say literally, I mean literally. From the Trek Today page linked by **Viva** : > [@](#): > > In 1857, a wagon train travelling across North America was transported by the Skagarans to the planet… Thanks **Aes** , **NCB** (see, **Aes** , we can be nice to each other 😉 ). ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2003, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-xindi-spoilers/200638/152 "2003-09-14T05:22:54Z")
I don’t think Reed is so bad. I mean, Porthos would be more fun, but given the choice between Reed and Mayweather—well, come on! Who’s got more of a personality, such as it is? ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2003, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-xindi-spoilers/200638/153 "2003-09-15T06:16:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aesiron \* > > 1. **SirRay** , TOS never had the technology that you’re expecting Enterprise to have and it took place a hundred years later. It’d be even less believable for them to lost that technology from the 2150s to the 2260s than it would for them to lose it between 2003 and 2150.\*\* Except, they **did** lose some of the technology we saw in this episode between the 2150s and the 2260s! That pop-up telescopic sight on the energy rifle, with the ability to see through fog? _ST:TOS_ and 24th-century _Trek_ had **nothing** like this. Case in point: “The Siege of AR-558,” on _Deep Space Nine_. In their gritty, all-out land battle against the Jem Hadar, our Federation troopers used phaser rifles with **no** special sights at all. They were about as accurate and effective as a modern \*\*semi-\*\*automatic rifle. Surely, the ability to shoot at Jem Hadar a good distance away, and perhaps hidden by smoke, would have been to the Federation troopers’ advantage. How did such a handy gizmo manage to get itself un-invented between the 22nd century and the 24th? ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2003, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-xindi-spoilers/200638/154 "2003-09-15T10:00:30Z")
[ignoring **tracer** ’s post about my own] Did anyone notice if the credits had Star Trek: Enterprise on them or not? I was reading in a Livejournal community a little while ago and someone had linked to one site or another where it said that it’s finally listed as such. I guess that finally blows the whole “Enterprise isn’t Star Trek” thing that some people still try and cling to out of the water, eh? [/i **t** pamo] ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2003, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-xindi-spoilers/200638/155 "2003-09-15T12:17:52Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by tracer \* > \*\* > That pop-up telescopic sight on the energy rifle, with the ability to see through fog? ST:TOS and 24th-century Trek had **nothing** like this._\* There was a psycho Vulcan shooting folks with a see through walls sight on a rifle that transported the bullet on a DS-9 episode. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tracer \* > \*\* > “The Siege of AR-558,” our Federation troopers used phaser rifles with **no** special sights at all. They were about as accurate and effective as a modern \*\*semi-\*\*automatic rifle. \*\* Poetic license. Berman or whoever admitted in a chat that they “toned the phaser rifle way down” to act like normal rifles for the story. ---
**Author:** ![drewbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drewbert/32/15890_2.png) [@drewbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewbert)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2003, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-xindi-spoilers/200638/156 "2003-09-15T12:47:46Z")
I’d like to know whatever happened to “stun grenades” in later centuries. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2003, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-xindi-spoilers/200638/157 "2003-09-15T13:43:39Z")
You can’t stun the Jem Had’ar, just piss them off. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Linus\_Van\_Pelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@Linus\_Van\_Pelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linus_Van_Pelt)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2003, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-xindi-spoilers/200638/158 "2003-09-15T15:17:28Z")
Unfortunately, technological differences, especially differences in everyday technology, will never be able to be kept consistent between series. TOS was, after all, written thirty five years ago and technology has changed in ways that no one predicted, which is not surprising considereing that predictions like that have a looooong history of being way off (It’s the 21st century, darn it! Where is my flying car?). So it’s not even something that we can blame on the producers. They’re caught between a rock and a hard place. If they keep everyday technolgy below level of TOS, they will be ridiculed by those who point out that we have some _current_ technology that is in some ways superior. If they take current advancements into account, they’ll get nailed by the fanboys who will scornfully take them to task, asking how they could possibly have _that_ yet (whatever _that_ is), conisidering what was displayed in TOS. Although I am a beliver in adhereing to established “canon”, I think this is one place where we need to wink and nod and work extra hard to suspend disbelief. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2003, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-xindi-spoilers/200638/159 "2003-09-15T17:20:38Z")
All they have to do to explain the toning down of the phasers is say some sort of distortion field is up that interferes with the high-tech doo-hickeys on the rifles, so they go into default WW2 mode. ---
**Author:** ![drewbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drewbert/32/15890_2.png) [@drewbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewbert)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2003, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-xindi-spoilers/200638/160 "2003-09-15T18:06:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by carnivorousplant \* > \*\*You can’t stun the Jem Had’ar, just piss them off. > 🙂 \*\* “Genlemen, stun has no effect on these creatures. Set phasers to ‘astound’.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-xindi-spoilers/200638.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-xindi-spoilers/200638.md?page=9)