# "Entitlement" now means the opposite of entitlement **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 15, 2018, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entitlement-now-means-the-opposite-of-entitlement/806659 "2018-01-15T02:14:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2018, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entitlement-now-means-the-opposite-of-entitlement/806659/41 "2018-01-17T18:59:27Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I’d have to look, but I suspect some literature from Social Security states directly or implies that ones payment to Medicare and Social Security will result in benefits later. Clearly this isn’t a standard signed contract, but don’t you think someone who needs to come up with arguments against yanking away all benefits would use this? > I did not imply successfully. > The information does not promise or imply any given level of benefits, so reducing (not eliminating) benefits could not be opposed in this way. A contract requires an offer by one party, acceptance by the other, and mutual consideration (both parties getting something they value). Social Security is not a contract. The government doesn’t “offer” Social Security enrollment, and participants don’t “accept” it. The law says everyone has to (other than a fairly limited group of federal and state employees), whether they “accept” the agreement or not. There are [some arguments](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flemming_v._Nestor) that the right to receive Social Security benefits is guaranteed by law - but not contract law - but to date, they have all failed. Look at it this way: if the federal government was on the verge of insolvency, do you actually think any court would order it to continue making SS payments? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entitlement-now-means-the-opposite-of-entitlement/806659/42 "2018-01-18T04:27:18Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > … Look at it this way: if the federal government was on the verge of insolvency, do you actually think any court would order it to continue making SS payments? The debate is about the meaning of the word _“entitled.”_ In the rules of Major League Baseball, a batter is _ **entitled** _ to walk to first base if he’s hit by a pitched ball. Obviously he’s not going to make it if the ball split his cranium or put him in a coma. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entitlement-now-means-the-opposite-of-entitlement/806659/43 "2018-01-18T19:17:21Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I see reflexive comments on Facebook these days whenever someone suggests axing Social Security or Medicare:\* “Don’t you dare call those programs ‘entitlements!’ We paid into those programs all our lives, we earned them, we deserve them.”\* > > Although, IIRC, nobody actually has a legal right to those benefits (if Uncle Sam abolished those programs tomorrow, suing the US govt would get you nowhere) - don’t sentiments of this sort imply that “entitlement” means something you do NOT deserve, and is a handout given out to freeloading people? It’s like entitlement now means something you did not earn and do not deserve…in other words, are not entitled to. This is a view held mostly by people who are trying to deal with the cognitive dissonance of voting for people who want entitlement reform but want to believe the people they are voting for are only talking about “welfare queens” ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entitlement-now-means-the-opposite-of-entitlement/806659/44 "2018-01-19T03:34:29Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > “welfare queens” Does anybody even say that anymore? Has anyone since Reagan used that term? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entitlement-now-means-the-opposite-of-entitlement/806659/45 "2018-01-19T04:06:49Z")
Wasn’t it the late Senator Russell B. Long (son of Huey the Kingfish) who said Don’t disentitle you, don’t disentitle me, Disentitle that other fellow behind the tree! ? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entitlement-now-means-the-opposite-of-entitlement/806659/46 "2018-01-19T15:02:03Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Does anybody even say that anymore? Has anyone since Reagan used that term? I admit it’s not common anymore, but I definitely heard it a good portion of my life, and I my first memories are after Reagan. The underlying concept continues, however, and **Damuri** describes it pretty well. Some people still seem to assume that welfare mostly goes to people who don’t need it. That’s why it’s presented as an entitlement, while Social Security is not. The term now means “something I don’t think you should be entitled to.” ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entitlement-now-means-the-opposite-of-entitlement/806659/47 "2018-01-19T15:17:43Z")
But the chicks are still for free, right? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entitlement-now-means-the-opposite-of-entitlement/806659/48 "2018-01-19T15:24:26Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > The debate is about the meaning of the word _“entitled.”_ The debate may be. The post I responded to is not. ---
**Author:** ![BeenJammin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beenjammin/32/448_2.png) [@BeenJammin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeenJammin)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entitlement-now-means-the-opposite-of-entitlement/806659/49 "2018-01-19T15:48:24Z")
So, was this thread supposed to be about: A) People who think they are entitled, but really are not B) Entitlements purported to be real, but actually are not C) Un-entitled people not getting their due D) Entitled people getting too much E) Word used out of context to deceive F) Something else ? If -F-, please expound further… ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entitlement-now-means-the-opposite-of-entitlement/806659/50 "2018-01-19T16:00:12Z")
> [@BeenJammin](#): > > F) Something else > > ? If -F-, please expound further… It’s about the change in definition of entitlement. It used to mean something you were entitled to. Now it means something you aren’t entitled to but want anyway. This has been pretty clear in every post in this thread except for yours. ---
**Author:** ![BeenJammin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beenjammin/32/448_2.png) [@BeenJammin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeenJammin)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entitlement-now-means-the-opposite-of-entitlement/806659/51 "2018-01-19T16:45:05Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > This has been pretty clear in every post in this thread except for yours. I imagine that is because I am not convinced any definition ever changed - only people’s uninformed opinions about it. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![BeenJammin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beenjammin/32/448_2.png) [@BeenJammin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeenJammin)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entitlement-now-means-the-opposite-of-entitlement/806659/52 "2018-01-19T16:59:05Z")
OK, so -F- “definition changed,” is summarily dismissed. Anyone else want to try. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entitlement-now-means-the-opposite-of-entitlement/806659/53 "2018-01-19T17:12:37Z")
> [@BeenJammin](#): > > I imagine that is because I am not convinced any definition ever changed - only people’s uninformed opinions about it. :rolleyes: Try to focus now. Tell us what you think entitlement means. Do it slowly, start with “The definition of entitlement is…”. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entitlement-now-means-the-opposite-of-entitlement/806659/54 "2018-01-19T19:47:13Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > It’s about the change in definition of entitlement. It used to mean something you were entitled to. Now it means something you aren’t entitled to but want anyway. > > This has been pretty clear in every post in this thread except for yours. It means something “they” want and aren’t entitled to. It never is used in the first person. That’s the whole point of it. It always means and has meant an advantage in the world. The change is about what it means to be entitled to something from _ **the government** _, and about whether the government is entitled to do that, or whether we should dismantle it because government benefits people who we don’t like. We probably are underestimating and underreporting exactly what government has done for \*\*\*us \*\*\*in that scenario. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entitlement-now-means-the-opposite-of-entitlement/806659/55 "2018-01-19T20:20:37Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > It means something “they” want and aren’t entitled to. It never is used in the first person. That’s the whole point of it. It’s used plenty in the first person when some entitled person is arguing with one of ‘them’. > [@](#): > > It always means and has meant an advantage in the world. The change is about what it means to be entitled to something from _ **the government** _, and about whether the government is entitled to do that, or whether we should dismantle it because government benefits people who we don’t like. We probably are underestimating and underreporting exactly what government has done for \*\*\*us \*\*\*in that scenario. Sure. It’s taken on a negative connotation so people don’t want to admit they benefit from entitlements, even though they have. Go back a few years to “Take you damn government hands off my Medicare”. I know what it means, then and now. Someone else seems to be confused about this. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entitlement-now-means-the-opposite-of-entitlement/806659/56 "2018-01-20T00:52:41Z")
> [@BeenJammin](#): > > An entitlement is formalized by law, rule or regulation - such as Jim Crowe laws, just like you said. > > People denied under Jim Crowe were not entitled, by definition. Sure it was wrong, but that’s not what this thread is about. Maybe you should start a new thread about civil rights entitlement miscues? They were entitled under the constitution. The laws were to meant to disentitle and deprive them. If you think you don’t have to “demand” something simply because you’re “entitled”, have you ever been involved in any litigation? Is this one of those libertarian arguments? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entitlement-now-means-the-opposite-of-entitlement/806659.md?page=2)