# Entrapment - Police whores and stupid fundamentalists **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 19, 2012, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entrapment-police-whores-and-stupid-fundamentalists/613353 "2012-02-19T21:14:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entrapment-police-whores-and-stupid-fundamentalists/613353/21 "2012-02-20T14:29:00Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I don’t think you understand the concept of entrapment. The fact that the kid wouldn’t hurt anyone is irrelevant. The “kid” is 29. He hasn’t been a kid for a while. ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entrapment-police-whores-and-stupid-fundamentalists/613353/22 "2012-02-20T14:33:06Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > The “kid” is 29. He hasn’t been a kid for a while. He was referring to the kid in high school with the joint. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entrapment-police-whores-and-stupid-fundamentalists/613353/23 "2012-02-20T14:35:12Z")
> [@Jenaroph](#): > > He was referring to the kid in high school with the joint. The case that **Miller** called “bullshit”? ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entrapment-police-whores-and-stupid-fundamentalists/613353/24 "2012-02-20T15:38:09Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Say, here’s a fun question: how many arrests would you expect honor roll student Justin Laboy to have on his record? Just a word to the wise - when I was in college studying psychology, I figured out pretty quickly that most of my friends got really sick of being scrutinized for psychological issues. So instead of playing coy lawyer with everyone here, could you just skip that part and link us to anything relevant about his drug-related history so we can beat up TAL about not carrying out due diligence? (Frankly, I forgot about the case after the episode was over, but maybe it’s just because Valentine’s Day sucks, so my only stake in this is telling TAL to do a little more background work first.) Oh, and I’m pretty sure they didn’t characterize it as “seduction”; that was the article in the OP. In the episode, the interviews with the student portrayed it as him feeling really close to her, sharing a lot of his feelings and she shared back, seriously crushing on her, and asking her to prom. The other side of it was necessarily limited - and they specified this - by the amount of info they could get from someone who wouldn’t let her voice be recorded and couldn’t talk about many things related to the case. Frankly, the only thing I remember as being iffy was whether or not she had actually agreed to go to prom with him, as they disagreed on what the answer was, which I found fishy one way or the other - either he didn’t want to admit she turned him down, or she said yes to string him along and didn’t want to admit that. (The charges came down before prom.) But yeah, it was a “stuff you do for love (or something like it)” podcast, and this was a segment at the end; it wasn’t an “oh my god, police are entrapping people” podcast. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entrapment-police-whores-and-stupid-fundamentalists/613353/25 "2012-02-20T15:47:49Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Remember the old “[AbScam](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abscam)” (yeah, so, it’s Wikipedia…) where the FBI caught Congressmen who were inviting offers of bribery? The point was that the suspects (later convicts) had to make the first move. I remember Abscam. I also remember lots of weeping and wailing from the crooks and their allies about “entrapment”. Every time there’s an undercover operation like this someone (including his lawyer) yelps about entrapment. This seems to happen a lot with people looking for hit men to take out a spouse or business partner. In retrospect it’s hard to comprehend the stupidity involved. If either of the bozos mentioned in the OP actually were “entrapped”, there’ll be ample opportunity to sell that proposition in court. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entrapment-police-whores-and-stupid-fundamentalists/613353/26 "2012-02-20T18:45:42Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > Another interesting thing is that worry about Government today is focused on its size and expenses whereas original issue with the Government was exactly this kind of theater that leads to control by fear. A smaller government, with less money, wouldn’t have the resources to do stupid shit like this. Besides, since when is it only allowable to pick just _one_ thing you think the government is doing badly, and you can only complain about that? We can’t complain about abuse of power because we already picked wasteful spending? :dubious::rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entrapment-police-whores-and-stupid-fundamentalists/613353/27 "2012-02-20T19:09:22Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > A smaller government, with less money, wouldn’t have the resources to do stupid shit like this. Besides, since when is it only allowable to pick just _one_ thing you think the government is doing badly, and you can only complain about that? We can’t complain about abuse of power because we already picked wasteful spending? :dubious::rolleyes: Hey, I agree with you. Perhaps not in the same order - I happen to think that increased size and expenses of the Government are consequence of “successes” like this. I wonder who would be crazy enough to argue against spending taxpayers money on BS like this (except, of course,Ron Paul :o ). ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entrapment-police-whores-and-stupid-fundamentalists/613353/28 "2012-02-20T19:09:30Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > Just a word to the wise - when I was in college studying psychology, I figured out pretty quickly that most of my friends got really sick of being scrutinized for psychological issues. So instead of playing coy lawyer with everyone here, could you just skip that part and link us to anything relevant about his drug-related history so we can beat up TAL about not carrying out due diligence? (Frankly, I forgot about the case after the episode was over, but maybe it’s just because Valentine’s Day sucks, so my only stake in this is telling TAL to do a little more background work first.) Or telling the OP to do homework first. So far as I can tell, the eighteen year old man (who is now 19) has had three arrests, on three separate occasions, as an adult. I have no idea how many, if any, he’s had as a juvenile. ---
**Author:** ![Testy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Testy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Testy)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entrapment-police-whores-and-stupid-fundamentalists/613353/29 "2012-02-20T19:15:15Z")
As far as the terrorist guy goes, fuck him. If he has a desire to blow shit up and kill people there is very little that is off-limits as far as catching him and jailing his ass. The HS kid seems like a different thing to me. Speaking as someone that used to **be** an 18 YO boy, there is very little that a 24 YO woman couldn’t have gotten me to do if she wanted to take the time. Even if she wasn’t being terribly flirty, and it wouldn’t have taken anything terribly overt, there would always be the chance that she might get that way if I gave her whatever it was that she wanted. I would think that the ease with which a grown woman can manipulate a teenage boy into doing things should be taken into account at the trial. Testy ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entrapment-police-whores-and-stupid-fundamentalists/613353/30 "2012-02-20T19:24:16Z")
For pot? Fucking pot? Alcohol is a drug, kills kids by the thousands, every year. So is heroin, cocaine, Oxycontin. Pot, by comparison, is milk and cookies. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entrapment-police-whores-and-stupid-fundamentalists/613353/31 "2012-02-21T03:11:20Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So far as I can tell, the eighteen year old man (who is now 19) has had three arrests, on three separate occasions, as an adult. I have no idea how many, if any, he’s had as a juvenile. Were any of these arrests for dealing large quantites of drugs? Did the undercover officer target this guy because of a well-established association with drugs? It’s one thing for school udercover officers to sniff out serious drug dealers and have them arrested, but to simply ask your classmates to score you small quantites and have _them_ arrested is outrageous. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entrapment-police-whores-and-stupid-fundamentalists/613353/32 "2012-02-21T03:16:47Z")
> [@Testy](#): > > As far as the terrorist guy goes, fuck him. If he has a desire to blow shit up and kill people there is very little that is off-limits as far as catching him and jailing his ass. They’d already caught him a year ago. Why didn’t they arrest him then? Because the FBI needed the publicity of saving us all from a terrorist attack that they were the only–repeat only–aiders and abettors of, that’s why. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entrapment-police-whores-and-stupid-fundamentalists/613353/33 "2012-02-21T03:19:39Z")
> [@sqweels](#): > > Were any of these arrests for dealing large quantites of drugs? > > Did the undercover officer target this guy because of a well-established association with drugs? > > It’s one thing for school udercover officers to sniff out serious drug dealers and have them arrested, but to simply ask your classmates to score you small quantites and have _them_ arrested is outrageous. Outrageous? Why? Absent the presence of an undercover officer, we might easily imagine that a high schooler would be asked by a classmate to find drugs. That’s the precise evil being combatted here. Your problem is not the conduct of the officer. You simply don’t believe the conduct should be illegal, period. Right? ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entrapment-police-whores-and-stupid-fundamentalists/613353/34 "2012-02-21T04:13:13Z")
Is the first story true?? I can only find the same blog by the same writer. Found other stuff about Operation D-Minus (the sting’s name) in Florida but no full story about the same Justin. Anyone got a different link? ---
**Author:** ![Testy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Testy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Testy)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entrapment-police-whores-and-stupid-fundamentalists/613353/35 "2012-02-21T13:59:28Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > They’d already caught him a year ago. Why didn’t they arrest him then? > > Because the FBI needed the publicity of saving us all from a terrorist attack that they were the only–repeat only–aiders and abettors of, that’s why. **Frank** As several people have mentioned, I would think the FBI was trying to pick up a few more of these reps from the religion of peace. It would seem a shame to invest a lot of effort and only get the one. Regards Testy ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entrapment-police-whores-and-stupid-fundamentalists/613353/36 "2012-02-21T14:15:49Z")
> [@Testy](#): > > As several people have mentioned, I would think the FBI was trying to pick up a few more of these reps from the religion of peace. It would seem a shame to invest a lot of effort and only get the one. Yes, it’s been mentioned. I’ve responded to that as well: at what point does a competent police organization realize that the only ones conspiring with this guy are them? Shouldn’t take a year. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entrapment-police-whores-and-stupid-fundamentalists/613353/37 "2012-02-21T15:29:50Z")
> [@Testy](#): > > The HS kid seems like a different thing to me. Speaking as someone that used to **be** an 18 YO boy, there is very little that a 24 YO woman couldn’t have gotten me to do if she wanted to take the time. Even if she wasn’t being terribly flirty, and it wouldn’t have taken anything terribly overt, there would always be the chance that she might get that way if I gave her whatever it was that she wanted. > I would think that the ease with which a grown woman can manipulate a teenage boy into doing things should be taken into account at the trial. > Testy Given that an 18-year-old “boy” is legally an adult and considered fully responsible for his own actions, I’m not sure I agree that “my dick made me do it” ought to be accepted as a mitigating excuse. If young men are really that helpless at controlling their behavior when confronted with feminine wiles, that might be an argument for raising the legal age of majority for males from 18 back to 21, or whatever age it’s reasonable to consider young men to be responsible adults. But if the law currently places 18-year-old men in the “responsible adults” category, then I don’t think they should get a pass for being irresponsible just because they’re men. Mind you, that’s not to say that I think the sting described in this particular case was necessarily ethical or a good use of police resources. Just that I’m not buying the “young men are so helpless and can’t be expected to control themselves” excuse in general. ---
**Author:** ![Testy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Testy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Testy)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entrapment-police-whores-and-stupid-fundamentalists/613353/38 "2012-02-21T16:36:32Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Given that an 18-year-old “boy” is legally an adult and considered fully responsible for his own actions, I’m not sure I agree that “my dick made me do it” ought to be accepted as a mitigating excuse. > > If young men are really that helpless at controlling their behavior when confronted with feminine wiles, that might be an argument for raising the legal age of majority for males from 18 back to 21, or whatever age it’s reasonable to consider young men to be responsible adults. > > But if the law currently places 18-year-old men in the “responsible adults” category, then I don’t think they should get a pass for being irresponsible just because they’re men. > > Mind you, that’s not to say that I think the sting described in this particular case was necessarily ethical or a good use of police resources. Just that I’m not buying the “young men are so helpless and can’t be expected to control themselves” excuse in general. **Kimstu** Possibly poor phrasing on my part but I didn’t really mean to claim that the guy was completely helpless. Just that he was more likely to do a favor for an attractive young woman that showed a more than passing interest in him. Agreed that this was an incredibly poor use of police resources. I would think that Florida would be a place where seriously dangerous drugs (crack/meth/major opiates) would be quite common. Chasing kids (or young adults) around for smoking pot seems to be focusing on a minor problem while ignoring a major one. Regards Testy ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entrapment-police-whores-and-stupid-fundamentalists/613353/39 "2012-02-21T17:02:22Z")
Their efforts bear fruit, the emergency room admissions for marijuana overdose are very low. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entrapment-police-whores-and-stupid-fundamentalists/613353/40 "2012-02-21T17:15:55Z")
> [@Testy](#): > > I would think that Florida would be a place where seriously dangerous drugs (crack/meth/major opiates) would be quite common. Chasing kids (or young adults) around for smoking pot seems to be focusing on a minor problem while ignoring a major one. True dat. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entrapment-police-whores-and-stupid-fundamentalists/613353.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entrapment-police-whores-and-stupid-fundamentalists/613353.md?page=3)