# Entrapment - Police whores and stupid fundamentalists **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 19, 2012, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entrapment-police-whores-and-stupid-fundamentalists/613353 "2012-02-19T21:14:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Stately\_Greek\_Automaton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Stately\_Greek\_Automaton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stately_Greek_Automaton)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entrapment-police-whores-and-stupid-fundamentalists/613353/161 "2012-02-24T05:32:45Z")
To be fair, with an Afro like that he’s just asking for a marijuana bust. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entrapment-police-whores-and-stupid-fundamentalists/613353/162 "2012-02-24T08:17:29Z")
Only if he’s wearing bell-bottoms and a “Free Huey” button. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entrapment-police-whores-and-stupid-fundamentalists/613353/163 "2012-02-24T09:31:12Z")
For reference: Keeping in mind this is something called [whosarrested.com](http://whosarrested.com), (which I swear I am not making up), we have… [http://www.whosarrested.com/florida/orange-county/orlando/ocj/1074593-justin-michael-laboy](http://www.whosarrested.com/florida/orange-county/orlando/ocj/1074593-justin-michael-laboy) Justin Michael LaBoy, arrested Jan.9, 2012, domestic violence and [http://www.whosarrested.com/florida/palm-beach-county/west-palm-beach/pbcso/1107856-justin-laboy](http://www.whosarrested.com/florida/palm-beach-county/west-palm-beach/pbcso/1107856-justin-laboy) Justin LaBoy, arrested Palm Beach Dec 1 2011, probation violation, age 19 Released on no bond Is that him? Could be, I guess, he was 18 when this shit all happened, he’s 19 now, and on probation. Seems pretty clearly not the same person as the Orlando Strangler. Just my luck, gave up gloating for Lent. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entrapment-police-whores-and-stupid-fundamentalists/613353/164 "2012-02-24T13:45:05Z")
OK, in looking at the pictures, which my iPhone browser did not load, I acknowledge that there seem to be two men named Justin Laboy, and the one who is the subject of this discussion has arrests only for marijuana distribution and later for probation violation. I was wrong in saying that he (Justin Laboy of the story on TAL) had committed other offenses. Any arguments I made about Mr Laboy’s other arrests are withdrawn. However, I do not withdraw my basic support for the arrest of Mr Laboy, and his own guilty plea to the charge acknowledges he was guilty of the underlying offense. I still maintain there was nothing improper – much less outrageous – about the police conduct at issue here. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entrapment-police-whores-and-stupid-fundamentalists/613353/165 "2012-02-24T13:49:26Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > For reference: > > Keeping in mind this is something called [whosarrested.com](http://whosarrested.com), (which I swear I am not making up), we have… > > [http://www.whosarrested.com/florida/orange-county/orlando/ocj/1074593-justin-michael-laboy](http://www.whosarrested.com/florida/orange-county/orlando/ocj/1074593-justin-michael-laboy) > > Justin Michael LaBoy, arrested Jan.9, 2012, domestic violence > > and > > [http://www.whosarrested.com/florida/palm-beach-county/west-palm-beach/pbcso/1107856-justin-laboy](http://www.whosarrested.com/florida/palm-beach-county/west-palm-beach/pbcso/1107856-justin-laboy) > > Justin LaBoy, arrested Palm Beach Dec 1 2011, probation violation, age 19 Released on no bond > > Is that him? Could be, I guess, he was 18 when this shit all happened, he’s 19 now, and on probation. Seems pretty clearly not the same person as the Orlando Strangler. > > Just my luck, gave up gloating for Lent. Well, I could use the **RT Firefly** approach, and point out how utterly unfair it is for you to use facts against me that I didn’t already have. I could whine about how we’re all supposed to be debating in good faith here, and for you to just haul out this additional information that I didn’t have and then use it against me is reprehensible! But of course I won’t, because that would be idiotic. Instead I will repeat what I said in my immediately prior post, and add that it was careless and foolish of me not to verify what I was seeing and instead rely on incomplete and poorly researched information. Because, see, that’s what someone does when they realize they don’t have all the facts at hand. So, yeah, me pretty dumb. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entrapment-police-whores-and-stupid-fundamentalists/613353/166 "2012-02-24T13:49:48Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Until **newme** just posted, I wondered if anyone besides you and me were going to acknowledge it. I took note of it about halfway down post #157, but I didn’t focus on it since I’m trying to make a larger point about **Bricker** ’s tendency to play ‘gotcha’ games. Continuing with that theme, I noted in that post that “given that [**Bricker**] continued to be an active participant in the thread, [he] would have shared any facts you came across that shed a different light on things.” The reason I assumed that was that that would have made his argument stronger. And that’s what you do - or what most of us do, anyway - when we debate: we bring in the stuff we know about that strengthens our positions. Deliberately presenting a somewhat weaker argument, while holding ‘gotcha’ facts in reserve, has more in common with pool-hall hustling than with any sort of honest debate I’m familiar with. Either kind of hustler lures people in by appearing to be a weaker player/having a weaker argument than he does; then he ups his game once you’re betting real money/brings out his ‘gotcha’ facts once you’ve invested yourself in an argument based on the facts presented up to that point. In **Bricker** ’s case, the motivation seems to be some sort of ego boost, the opportunity to say, “see, I was right and you were wrong,” based not on the quality of his arguments, but simply on having held a few relevant facts in reserve. Guess we all have to get our jollies somehow. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entrapment-police-whores-and-stupid-fundamentalists/613353/167 "2012-02-24T13:59:25Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Well, I could use the **RT Firefly** approach, and point out how utterly unfair it is for you to use facts against me that I didn’t already have. Maybe you can’t read. Here, let me help you: > [@RTFirefly](#): > > Oh, it’s fair. Just stupid. > [@](#): > > You seem to use it to say, “I am not obligated to bring to light facts I know that would reveal the full strength of **my own case** to the person I’m arguing with, until such time as I’m losing the argument without those facts.” > > And you’re right - you’re under no such obligation. > > That doesn’t make it any less a dick move. People are not obligated to not be dicks. > [@](#): > > I could whine about how we’re all supposed to be debating in good faith here Well yeah, we ARE supposed to be debating in good faith here. Why in the world should I debate you if you’re NOT debating in good faith? > [@](#): > > But of course I won’t, because that would be idiotic. Seems we have a fundamental disagreement about this. Gotta admit, though, that the last thing I was expecting out of you was to see you go all-in in defense of debating in bad faith. Kinda funny from someone who passes himself off as a paragon of rectitude, but I guess that means different things to different people too. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entrapment-police-whores-and-stupid-fundamentalists/613353/168 "2012-02-24T14:45:09Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > OK, in looking at the pictures, which my iPhone browser did not load There was also about 50 words of text on the page, of which about 20 lists the arrestee’s current age. Which was different for the two men. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entrapment-police-whores-and-stupid-fundamentalists/613353/169 "2012-02-24T16:29:07Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > … someone who passes himself off as a paragon of rectitude… _Rectitude_, noun, from the Latin _rectum_… ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entrapment-police-whores-and-stupid-fundamentalists/613353/170 "2012-02-24T17:05:12Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > _Rectitude_, noun, from the Latin _rectum_… Must admit, that thought figured into my word choice… ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entrapment-police-whores-and-stupid-fundamentalists/613353/171 "2012-02-24T17:28:54Z")
Anybody see anything in the various reports about how much resource was spent on this? Apparently, not just one but several undercover cops, over a period of nine months. How much did they spend to nab thirty-one potheads? And I say “potheads” because, so far as I know, no other drugs were involved. I rather suspect that if they had nabbed a heroin dealer, they would have made that known. Loudly. I want to know who thought this was such a great idea, who proposed it, who signed off on the budget? And what _was_ that budget? And “Operation D-minus”? Well, OK, that was droll… I see several references to "honor student’. I think we have established to a reasonable degree that this young man had a clean record. Are the good citizens of Lake Worth, Florida, safer in their homes now? To what degree? What has been accomplished, here? Perhaps the governor could pardon? You remember the governor, don’t you, late of the Columbia/HCA Medicare fraud scandals? No, I suppose not, can’t expect such a sterling example of virtue to intervene in such a sordid affair… ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entrapment-police-whores-and-stupid-fundamentalists/613353/172 "2012-02-24T17:43:06Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > There was also about 50 words of text on the page, of which about 20 lists the arrestee’s current age. Which was different for the two men. The summary page was not what I used; I only Googled that in response to someone asking where I got the information. I had individually linked to each arrest’s page, and so my opportunity to compare ages was not as easy. Granted, I should have exercised more care. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entrapment-police-whores-and-stupid-fundamentalists/613353/173 "2012-02-24T17:45:48Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Anybody see anything in the various reports about how much resource was spent on this? Apparently, not just one but several undercover cops, over a period of nine months. How much did they spend to nab thirty-one potheads? And I say “potheads” because, so far as I know, no other drugs were involved. I rather suspect that if they had nabbed a heroin dealer, they would have made that known. Loudly. Since the operation was initiated in response to complaints about pot being sold at the school, I imagine the expected haul was “potheads.” I have no idea how big the school is, but 31 students at a school able to procure marijuana on request sounds like a lot to me. Obviously you disagree. Too bad you don’t get to set priorities for police, huh? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entrapment-police-whores-and-stupid-fundamentalists/613353/174 "2012-02-24T17:53:38Z")
Nasty as hell about it, too, big guy. After all, I have some dignity! Not as much as _you_, of course, but I don’t need as much. Always found it pretty expensive. You made a mistake? Well, yes, mistakes were made. And the “Ha ha!, fuck you, **'luc!** ” dance? Just boyish enthusiasm, nothin’ personal, can’t hold it against a cute little scamp like you… ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entrapment-police-whores-and-stupid-fundamentalists/613353/175 "2012-02-24T17:59:35Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Since the operation was initiated in response to complaints about pot being sold at the school, I imagine the expected haul was “potheads.” > > I have no idea how big the school is, but 31 students at a school able to procure marijuana on request sounds like a lot to me. Obviously you disagree. > > Too bad you don’t get to set priorities for police, huh? [http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/schools/undercover-drug-operations-at-jupiter-royal-palm-and-1463644.html](http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/schools/undercover-drug-operations-at-jupiter-royal-palm-and-1463644.html) > [@](#): > > …Undercover officers posing as students spent the school year at Jupiter, Royal Palm Beach and Park Vista high schools, Police Chief Jim Kelly said Monday Not one school, several. At least I get my facts right. Batting a thousand, Counselor. Probably missed this part as well. > [@](#): > > …The news of the busts comes as the district proposes to slash about $4 million from the school police department’s budget and eliminate 17 filled officer positions and 24 filled police aide positions. > > Asked whether the school district’s budget woes could affect Operation D Minus and similar efforts, Kelly said, “Law enforcement is a balancing of priorities to provide a safe and nurturing educational environment.”… ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entrapment-police-whores-and-stupid-fundamentalists/613353/176 "2012-02-24T18:00:47Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Argument by inference. The law permits this activity. Laws are passed by legislators, elected by the people. Laws are thus preemptively the will of the people, and the burden falls on you to rebut that presumption. That is just silly. We are a Republic, not a democracy. We elect legislators to make decisions that we may or may not agree with. Even if we don’t, we often re-elect them because of other decisions they make. Laws currently on the books are a poor measure of the actual sentiment of the people. If they weren’t, there would be more than eight states with marriage equality. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entrapment-police-whores-and-stupid-fundamentalists/613353/177 "2012-02-24T18:03:58Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Argument by inference. The law permits this activity. Laws are passed by legislators, elected by the people. Laws are thus preemptively the will of the people, and the burden falls on you to rebut that presumption. Proposition 8 in California. In other words, you can even get people to directly vote for something but if it is fundamentally wrong, law itself becomes wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entrapment-police-whores-and-stupid-fundamentalists/613353/178 "2012-02-24T18:12:43Z")
> [@saoirse](#): > > That is just silly. We are a Republic, not a democracy. We elect legislators to make decisions that we may or may not agree with. Even if we don’t, we often re-elect them because of other decisions they make. Laws currently on the books are a poor measure of the actual sentiment of the people. If they weren’t, there would be more than eight states with marriage equality. No. Laws are presumed to be the will of the people, expressed through their elected representatives. “That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, _deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed_…” See also the [Universal Declaration of human Rights](http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/index.shtml): > [@](#): > > The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government; this will shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret vote or by equivalent free voting procedures. See also the Virginia Bill of Rights, Section 6: > [@](#): > > That elections of members to serve as representatives of the people, in assembly, ought to be free; and that all men, having sufficient evidence of permanent common interest with, the attachment to, the community, have the right of suffrage, and cannot be taxed or deprived of their property for publick uses without their own consent, or that of their representatives so elected,\* nor bound by any law to which they have not, in like manner, assented, for the public good\*. (emphasis added) That creates the presumption. It’s for anyone challenging that presumption to show that a particular action does not enjoy such sanction and support. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entrapment-police-whores-and-stupid-fundamentalists/613353/179 "2012-02-24T18:15:22Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > Proposition 8 in California. > > In other words, you can even get people to directly vote for something but if it is fundamentally wrong, law itself becomes wrong. And who gets to decide the question of fundamental wrongness? You? What if you’re busy that day? Well, better not waste your time. I say it’s fundamentally wrong that residents of Washington DC cannot legally defend themselves by owning a handgun without paying hundreds of dollars in permits and training fees. Am I right? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entrapment-police-whores-and-stupid-fundamentalists/613353/180 "2012-02-24T18:21:45Z")
Also, it’s fundamentally wrong that actress Helen Hunt does not come to my house tonight to give me a nice oil massage, and it’s fundamentally wrong that my wife would actively prevent Ms. Hunt from so doing even if Helen were so inclined. I have to say, I’m very excited about the prospects of shaping the legal system by the simple principle of declaring things fundamentally wrong. Next up - the fundamental wrongness of the designated hitter rule. I know you’ll all want to stay tuned. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entrapment-police-whores-and-stupid-fundamentalists/613353.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/entrapment-police-whores-and-stupid-fundamentalists/613353.md?page=10)