# Environmental Impact of Wind Energy (and excuses made for it) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 13, 2017, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/environmental-impact-of-wind-energy-and-excuses-made-for-it/791156 "2017-07-13T04:39:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/environmental-impact-of-wind-energy-and-excuses-made-for-it/791156/21 "2017-07-13T10:04:11Z")
> [@Marci\_Al](#): > > WRT environmental impact, I am of the opinion that if it takes longer to develop, and has a longer payback than a fossil fuel engine, it’ll probably cost the environment a lot more. [unproven] you may have a right to have your own opinion, but you don’t have a right to have your own facts. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/environmental-impact-of-wind-energy-and-excuses-made-for-it/791156/22 "2017-07-13T10:27:09Z")
Others have already refuted the nonsensical claims, so I’ll just say thanks for posting the link to the pretty pictures. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/environmental-impact-of-wind-energy-and-excuses-made-for-it/791156/23 "2017-07-13T10:31:58Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Maybe explain how 100% renewable energy fails basic physics? It fails basic physics in exactly the same way evolution fails basic physics – it violates the Second Law of Thermodynamics. (That said, if the OP has the gumption to stay up all night trying to figure out the solution to this apparent paradox, I promise that the answer will eventually dawn on him.) ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/environmental-impact-of-wind-energy-and-excuses-made-for-it/791156/24 "2017-07-13T11:03:18Z")
> [@eg8576736](#): > > And their ability to actually replace fossil fuels is weak because they can’t be constructed and maintained without carbon energy. Oil, specifically, isn’t used much for electricity-generation and wind can’t compete with its portable energy density. “100% renewable energy” defies physics. > > Are these industrial landscapes beautiful to you readers? [wind farm mountain - Google Search](http://bit.ly/2ugFMZx) (link leads to Google image search) > […] > Why is it so difficult to get the new breed of environmentalists to acknowledge that […] wind turbines really aren’t saving the planet at all? Indeed, those Big Green shills just won’t admit to the carbon intensity of wind power. Fortunately, we have anti-new-breed-environmentalist champions like the IPCC to investigate these serious matters and to reveal that wind power has a lifecycle carbon intensity of up to 56 gCO[sub]2[/sub]eq/kWh! ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/environmental-impact-of-wind-energy-and-excuses-made-for-it/791156/25 "2017-07-13T11:36:13Z")
I’ve walked past [these](http://i.imgur.com/8Fcw3Tj.jpg) several times in the past few months. Either the technology has improved, or the claims about the noise are exaggerated bullshit\*. When they’re turning slowly, you can hardly hear anything. When they are really spinning, it’s windy and it sounds windy. The worst description would be the sound of a distant freeway. Like a mile away distant freeway. \*Note: “President” Trump has frequently spoken out against wind energy, which should be sufficient proof that it is one of our greatest accomplishments. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/environmental-impact-of-wind-energy-and-excuses-made-for-it/791156/26 "2017-07-13T12:00:28Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > It fails basic physics in exactly the same way evolution fails basic physics – it violates the Second Law of Thermodynamics. > > (That said, if the OP has the gumption to stay up all night trying to figure out the solution to this apparent paradox, I promise that the answer will eventually dawn on him.) I was ready to reply to this by referring to the “evolution violates the SLT”, and then I re-read it. Man, skimming posts is dangerous! ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/environmental-impact-of-wind-energy-and-excuses-made-for-it/791156/27 "2017-07-13T12:01:38Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > It fails basic physics in exactly the same way evolution fails basic physics – it violates the Second Law of Thermodynamics. > > (That said, if the OP has the gumption to stay up all night trying to figure out the solution to this apparent paradox, I promise that the answer will eventually dawn on him.) Oh, well done! ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/environmental-impact-of-wind-energy-and-excuses-made-for-it/791156/28 "2017-07-13T12:18:11Z")
I’d support efforts to reduce the environmental impact of wind turbines. If any actual thinker has some ideas I’d support use of my tax dollars to do science. But OP is severely confused. Wind power is now a major source of the world’s electricity, especially in places like China, Germany, Spain, Denmark, and, yes, even the heartland of Trump’s America: Texas, Oklahoma, Iowa, etc. Does OP think the world would be a better place if this wind power were replaced with carbon burning? Is he a shill for Big Oil? Or just a Trumpist eager to jump on the anti-wind agenda the incontinent buffoon is pushing? The danger to birds is wildly exaggerated. Yes, many thousands of birds are killed but there are Hundreds of _Billions_ of birds in the world. If you live in America your chance of being shot by a policeman, if you’re human, is greater than your chance of being killed by a wind turbine, if you’re a bird. Heck, _cell phone towers kill far far more birds_ than wind turbines do. > [@eg8576736](#): > > “100% renewable energy” defies physics. You might want to reconsider this remark. Wind power is “renewable” because tomorrow we will receive as much new energy from the Sun as we received today. The long-term threat to life on Earth is NOT that the Sun will eventually consume all its hydrogen fuel: Long before that point is reached, life will be extinguished by the on-going _increase_ in solar output. ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/environmental-impact-of-wind-energy-and-excuses-made-for-it/791156/29 "2017-07-13T12:53:38Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > . The long-term threat to life on Earth is NOT that the Sun will eventually consume all its hydrogen fuel: Long before that point is reached, life will be extinguished by the on-going _increase_ in solar output. Yeah, the OP’s red herring about “basic physics” throws his honesty into question. I haven’t read any claims, anywhere/anytime, that windmills will forestall the heat death of the universe. ---
**Author:** ![Randolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Randolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randolph)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/environmental-impact-of-wind-energy-and-excuses-made-for-it/791156/30 "2017-07-13T13:44:49Z")
I like it when they catch fire. So many layers of so many things! Some genuinely ironic. ---
**Author:** ![boffking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/858c86/32.png) [@boffking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boffking)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/environmental-impact-of-wind-energy-and-excuses-made-for-it/791156/31 "2017-07-13T13:46:36Z")
Pet cats kill over 1 million birds for every one that is killed by a wind turbine. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/environmental-impact-of-wind-energy-and-excuses-made-for-it/791156/32 "2017-07-13T14:11:31Z")
Cite? ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/environmental-impact-of-wind-energy-and-excuses-made-for-it/791156/33 "2017-07-13T14:54:13Z")
> [@Marci\_Al](#): > > [unproven] Well, you got that part right. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/environmental-impact-of-wind-energy-and-excuses-made-for-it/791156/34 "2017-07-13T15:02:00Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > You might want to reconsider this remark. Wind power is “renewable” because tomorrow we will receive as much new energy from the Sun as we received today. The long-term threat to life on Earth is NOT that the Sun will eventually consume all its hydrogen fuel: Long before that point is reached, life will be extinguished by the on-going _increase_ in solar output. We had a poster who insisted solar wasn’t renewable because of this. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/environmental-impact-of-wind-energy-and-excuses-made-for-it/791156/35 "2017-07-13T15:27:02Z")
I have not found the citation on a quick search, but I recall seeing that the deaths of bats and birds are limited to first generation turbines that used smaller blades spinning at high speeds. Later generation turbines with enormous blades spinning slowly, using gears to drive the speed needed for electricity, do not endanger flying critters. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/environmental-impact-of-wind-energy-and-excuses-made-for-it/791156/36 "2017-07-13T15:30:09Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > I have not found the citation on a quick search, but I recall seeing that the deaths of bats and birds are limited to first generation turbines that used smaller blades spinning at high speeds. Later generation turbines with enormous blades spinning slowly, using gears to drive the speed needed for electricity, do not endanger flying critters. Ontario put up a shitload of wind turbines along 401. They spin pretty slowly. [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsEHpRQWqt8) ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/environmental-impact-of-wind-energy-and-excuses-made-for-it/791156/37 "2017-07-13T15:37:55Z")
They’re beautiful to me. The OP is a bunch of anti-Wind power hysterics. What, do you work for an oil or coal company or something? ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/environmental-impact-of-wind-energy-and-excuses-made-for-it/791156/38 "2017-07-13T15:45:43Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > I’m struggling to pull anything resembling a coherent point out of this paragraph. Maybe try again. Maybe explain how 100% renewable energy fails basic physics? I think we had someone else in a previous thread try to argue this as well, saying that the fact that the sun will eventually die out means that solar power isn’t renewable. [Some people](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Question) just aren’t satisfied with a power source unless it survives the heat death of the universe. Personally, I’m in favor of short term profits and say fuck earth inhabitants of the year 5 billion. What did they ever do for us? ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/environmental-impact-of-wind-energy-and-excuses-made-for-it/791156/39 "2017-07-13T15:48:36Z")
> [@boffking](#): > > Pet cats kill over 1 million birds for every one that is killed by a wind turbine. > [@madsircool](#): > > Cite? It’s in the article that the OP posted to back up all his claims. ---
**Author:** ![boffking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/858c86/32.png) [@boffking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boffking)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/environmental-impact-of-wind-energy-and-excuses-made-for-it/791156/40 "2017-07-13T16:26:19Z")
OP, what is your preferred source of energy? If it was up to you, what kind of power plants would we be building? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/environmental-impact-of-wind-energy-and-excuses-made-for-it/791156.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/environmental-impact-of-wind-energy-and-excuses-made-for-it/791156.md?page=3)