# Environmental Impact of Wind Energy (and excuses made for it) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 13, 2017, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/environmental-impact-of-wind-energy-and-excuses-made-for-it/791156 "2017-07-13T04:39:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/environmental-impact-of-wind-energy-and-excuses-made-for-it/791156/41 "2017-07-13T17:03:49Z")
Sure, drain the sun’s energies! And when it runs out? Then what? For one thing, no heat to provoke wind! Shit will go downhill in a big ass hurry then, won’t it? Well, probably freeze half-way down hill. Still a good analogy! Not one of my best… ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/environmental-impact-of-wind-energy-and-excuses-made-for-it/791156/42 "2017-07-13T17:05:24Z")
> [@boffking](#): > > OP, what is your preferred source of energy? If it was up to you, what kind of power plants would we be building? Marijuana. Builds itself. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/environmental-impact-of-wind-energy-and-excuses-made-for-it/791156/43 "2017-07-13T17:16:14Z")
> [@eg8576736](#): > > “would you rather live near a coal mine?” (old damage vs. new) Why is that a fallacy? > [@](#): > > …Various biologists think “green” energy may cause more extinctions than climate change as it physically disrupts habitats; see Clive Hambler, et al. Can you provide the citation info for this Hambler et al. paper? All I could find was [this alarmist magazine article](https://www.spectator.co.uk/2013/01/wind-farms-vs-wildlife/) which doesn’t have a list of citations. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/environmental-impact-of-wind-energy-and-excuses-made-for-it/791156/44 "2017-07-13T17:21:10Z")
Biomass is just another form of solar energy. In some circumstances biomass crops might make more sense than photoelectric panels, in others the reverse. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/environmental-impact-of-wind-energy-and-excuses-made-for-it/791156/45 "2017-07-13T17:24:59Z")
I find wind turbines in the countryside to be very graceful additions to the landscape. And then they begin to remind me of the Martian Death Machines in _War of the Worlds_ (novel version) and I start to freak out and duck from the Heat Rays. And if we pull them down to save the poor birdies, will we go on to demolish all tall buidlings? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/environmental-impact-of-wind-energy-and-excuses-made-for-it/791156/46 "2017-07-13T17:31:22Z")
The top five states according to percentage of generation by wind in 2016 were: Iowa (36.6%) South Dakota (30.3%) Kansas (29.6%) Oklahoma (25.1%) North Dakota (21.5%) Fourteen states now have 10 percent or more of their generation coming from wind power. Most of these are in the central plains. These states include North Dakota, South Dakota, Minnesota, Iowa, Nebraska, Colorado, Kansas, Oklahoma, New Mexico, Texas, Maine, Vermont, Oregon, and Idaho. In 2016, wind power produced 5.55% of all USA electrical production. So far in 2017, it is averaging 7.5%. The Industry claims that wind power related Eagle deaths are less than 2% of all human related eagle deaths. If the OP has something showing otherwise, from a legitimate source, they should show their work. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/environmental-impact-of-wind-energy-and-excuses-made-for-it/791156/47 "2017-07-13T17:35:38Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > Why is that a fallacy? > Can you provide the citation info for this Hambler et al. paper? All I could find was [this alarmist magazine article](https://www.spectator.co.uk/2013/01/wind-farms-vs-wildlife/) which doesn’t have a list of citations. I don’t know what paper the poster was referring to; however, Hambler has done a lot of work on extinction rates in the UK (some samples below). He is a strong proponent of what he calls “rewilding” as he believes that loss of habitat is a major driver towards the increase in extinction rates. [1] Thomas, J. A., Morris, M. G., & Hambler, C. (1994). Patterns, mechanisms and rates of extinction among invertebrates in the United Kingdom. Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society of London B: Biological Sciences, 344(1307), 47-54. [2] Hambler, C., & Speight, M. R. (2004). Extinction rates and butterflies. Science, 305(5690), 1563-1565. [3] Hambler, C., Henderson, P. A., & Speight, M. R. (2011). Extinction rates, extinction-prone habitats, and indicator groups in Britain and at larger scales. Biological Conservation, 144(2), 713-721. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/environmental-impact-of-wind-energy-and-excuses-made-for-it/791156/48 "2017-07-13T17:36:58Z")
> [@eg8576736](#): > > Are these industrial landscapes beautiful to you readers? [wind farm mountain - Google Search](http://bit.ly/2ugFMZx) (link leads to Google image search) Also note, as evidenced in the photos, for (nearly) every wind turbine, there has to be a road cut out to get to it. Just sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/environmental-impact-of-wind-energy-and-excuses-made-for-it/791156/49 "2017-07-13T17:57:34Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Yes, a certain number of birds and bats get killed by the blades of wind turbines. > > Alternatively, we could continue using carbon-based fuels until we warm the world sufficiently for a mass extinction event. That’s not going to happen. However, there is an alternative to windfarms. There would need to be wind studies performed all over the place, but if there is sufficient wind power overall in an area, buildings and homes might benefit from installing small [vertical axis wind turbines](https://www.google.com/search?q=vertical+wind+turbine&biw=1275&bih=665&tbm=isch&imgil=UEZIoNmSdx-3aM%253A%253BuonkjlHNntCQGM%253Bhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.pinterest.com%25252Fexplore%25252Fsavonius-wind-turbine%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=UEZIoNmSdx-3aM%253A%252CuonkjlHNntCQGM%252C_&usg=__-TNdHkQDKZQNYWZmyp_SIoFEVTg%3D#imgrc=UEZIoNmSdx-3aM:) . The idea is to distribute the sourcing of the creation of electricity rather than mass production in a small area with the attendant havoc being wreaked on small flying critters. It’s not a perfect solution. VAWTs could stand some tweaking to increase efficiency, and not everywhere is going to have a steady enough wind pattern to support them. But I look at the office complexes in Houston, for example, and I think that they could support them. Put one at each corner of the roof of a building, or even more along the roofline, and I think the turbines would make a significant contribution to the electrical needs for each building. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/environmental-impact-of-wind-energy-and-excuses-made-for-it/791156/50 "2017-07-13T18:00:01Z")
In Britain there are various assorted right-wing loons, with websites, protesting against Wind-Power more than against Solar, whose upturn in the last half-decade \* has confused them rather, when they were screaming ‘_CON_’; ‘_You Can’t Get Sunlight During The Night_’, and _'It Costs More Energy To Make The Panels Than You Ever Get Back_’. They are generally Tories or libertarians who want to go back to the good old 1950s, when old reliable Coal was being supplemented by this exciting new Nuclear thingy promising a glowing future. - Not that that stopped the Tory government taking away Solar Subsidies a couple of years back. To be fair they also stopped investment in the other Renewables. ---
**Author:** ![BeeGee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5a626/32.png) [@BeeGee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeeGee)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/environmental-impact-of-wind-energy-and-excuses-made-for-it/791156/51 "2017-07-13T18:00:40Z")
We have both pumpjacks and wind turbines on our land. The turbines are MUCH quieter than the pumpjack. Which also must have a road cut to them. I’m a lot less worried about a sand hill crane getting whacked by a turbine or a rattlesnake losing his home than I am by the possibility of a failure in drilling to pollute the Ogallala Aquifer. there is no one to take over the farm after the current farmer retires. When the solar panel people come knocking, I’ll greet them with open arms! ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/environmental-impact-of-wind-energy-and-excuses-made-for-it/791156/52 "2017-07-13T18:43:20Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Biomass is just another form of solar energy. In some circumstances biomass crops might make more sense than photoelectric panels, in others the reverse. if we want to go there, oil is just another form of solar energy. it’s just been in storage for a few million years. ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bruce\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/environmental-impact-of-wind-energy-and-excuses-made-for-it/791156/53 "2017-07-13T19:11:11Z")
I find the argument that windmills are an eyesore uncompelling. Every power plant ever built is ugly and some of them smell bad too. A tesla roof might never meet the highest aesthetic standard but I’d have one installed if I could afford it. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/environmental-impact-of-wind-energy-and-excuses-made-for-it/791156/54 "2017-07-14T02:25:42Z")
[Yes, this is so horrible](https://www.google.com/maps/@41.4978328,-95.1788743,3a,75y,184.81h,89.88t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1scE7qc0bt7_2fFfUvklxdaQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en) [it just utterly ruins the view.](https://www.google.com/maps/@33.9077969,-116.5734732,3a,60y,242.72h,91.04t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sRfUCFemYiC2oYfmr5wGRpg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en) :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/environmental-impact-of-wind-energy-and-excuses-made-for-it/791156/55 "2017-07-14T02:33:43Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > [Yes, this is so horrible](https://www.google.com/maps/@41.4978328,-95.1788743,3a,75y,184.81h,89.88t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1scE7qc0bt7_2fFfUvklxdaQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en) [it just utterly ruins the view.](https://www.google.com/maps/@33.9077969,-116.5734732,3a,60y,242.72h,91.04t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sRfUCFemYiC2oYfmr5wGRpg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en) > > :rolleyes: That link takes me to a map of my current location. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/environmental-impact-of-wind-energy-and-excuses-made-for-it/791156/56 "2017-07-14T02:41:28Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > That link takes me to a map of my current location. Me too, but then it jumps to pics of dull landscapes adorned with GIANT MARTIAN DEATH MACHINES AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/environmental-impact-of-wind-energy-and-excuses-made-for-it/791156/57 "2017-07-14T02:56:42Z")
Actually two links there. One to a wind farm near Adair, Iowa and one to a wind farm at Palm Springs, CA. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/environmental-impact-of-wind-energy-and-excuses-made-for-it/791156/58 "2017-07-14T03:19:07Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Actually two links there. One to a wind farm near Adair, Iowa and one to a wind farm at Palm Springs, CA. And both take me to a map of my neighborhood. Apparently my phone isn’t passing the links properly or the Google Maps app is failing to interpret them, so it ends up defaulting to my current location. I’ve seen the wind farm in Palm Springs. That was back in the 90s so that one’s been there for a while. A lot of them weren’t spinning, for some reason. ---
**Author:** ![kayT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayt/32/3633_2.png) [@kayT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayT)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/environmental-impact-of-wind-energy-and-excuses-made-for-it/791156/59 "2017-07-14T03:29:31Z")
They weren’t spinning because many of the companies who built them have gone out of business and, as I understand it, no one is making parts to repair them. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/environmental-impact-of-wind-energy-and-excuses-made-for-it/791156/60 "2017-07-14T03:36:45Z")
Why doesn’t some kind soul walk up and oil them, like the Tin Man from _The Wizard of Oz?_ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/environmental-impact-of-wind-energy-and-excuses-made-for-it/791156.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/environmental-impact-of-wind-energy-and-excuses-made-for-it/791156.md?page=4)