# Epic Story! "The Mystery Of The Transvestite And The Stolen Car "\[now a debate on slurs\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 30, 2012, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epic-story-the-mystery-of-the-transvestite-and-the-stolen-car-now-a-debate-on-slurs/626766 "2012-06-30T02:16:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epic-story-the-mystery-of-the-transvestite-and-the-stolen-car-now-a-debate-on-slurs/626766/41 "2012-07-06T19:00:43Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > You are correct on that matter. Nonetheless, the response to the OP was over the top and controlling. **MsWhatsit** , **Eve** brought it on herself. We don’t \*all \*knuckle under when folks harangue us for not living like they think we should. You think that was a harangue? Are you new to the Internet or something? Chill it down a notch, dude. _Your_ responses in this thread to what was really a pretty low-key post from **Eve** have been ludicrously over-the-top. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epic-story-the-mystery-of-the-transvestite-and-the-stolen-car-now-a-debate-on-slurs/626766/42 "2012-07-06T19:04:27Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > When you have an argument that’s not “but I don’t wanna” maybe I’ll stop calling it pathetic. > Yes, when Eve says that she doesn’t appreciate people using the word tranny, the appropriate response is, indeed to say “Oh, you’re right. I’m sorry.” and not to try to defend its use. Look at Eve’s first post. The proper option would have been for **Eve** not to try to elevate the situation out of proportion by equating the word tranny to the same level as nigger and faggot. Like the OP had posted a hate crime or some such. She did not say, “I’d appreciate it if you did not use that term.” I wouldn’t be arguing this now if **Eve** had shown some decorum while berating others for their lack of decorum. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epic-story-the-mystery-of-the-transvestite-and-the-stolen-car-now-a-debate-on-slurs/626766/43 "2012-07-06T19:35:40Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > Because \*\*Eve \*\*is trying to take a word that is really just a slang term for a transvestite and all by herself make it into a derogatory slur. Watch, her reply will use the word nigger. She’ll try to make it sound like Tranny is the same level of intentional and widely accepted offensiveness when it most plainly is not. I very much doubt she’ll do that. What I would expect is for her to continue the argument she’s already made, which is that the word “tranny” today is equivalent to the word “nigger” _around the turn of the 19th century_. Which seems pretty apt - I suspect at the time that there were a lot of black people raising similar objections to the casual use of the word “nigger.” And, I suspect, there were a lot of non-black people dismissing their complaints through reference to the commonality of the term, as you’re doing here. > [@](#): > > Sorry, **Eve**. I’m not buying it. Just because you are offended by the term tranny does not make it a generally accepted slur. Your problem here is that it’s not just **Eve** who is offended by the term. Most trans people find the term offensive. I’m usually all for the democratization of meaning, but if a term used to describe a small minority is widely taken as insulting by members of that minority, then the word is a slur, regardless of what the mainstream attitude is to that term. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epic-story-the-mystery-of-the-transvestite-and-the-stolen-car-now-a-debate-on-slurs/626766/44 "2012-07-06T19:56:44Z")
**Miller** , you make good points. But please understand that It’s not really the word tranny that I’m all up about, although maybe I’ve been unclear. It was\*\* Eve’s \*\*response to the OP that I object to. It was borderline threadshitting. I get very annoyed when people intrude on a thread just to announce that the OP is bad. Her later post was more considered. But it doesn’t change the really pissy manner of her first reaction. ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epic-story-the-mystery-of-the-transvestite-and-the-stolen-car-now-a-debate-on-slurs/626766/45 "2012-07-06T19:57:30Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Epic Story! “The Mystery Of The Transvestite And The Stolen Car – Tales From The Valet Stand” I feel cheated. That story wasn’t epic at all. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epic-story-the-mystery-of-the-transvestite-and-the-stolen-car-now-a-debate-on-slurs/626766/46 "2012-07-06T21:05:39Z")
I’m with **Eve** on this one. Maybe the person saying “tranny” does not mean to be offensive. It remains a very offensive word. The only folks I can think of who use the word with any regularity are known for being LGBT friendly and us the word much like a black rapper would use “nigger”. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epic-story-the-mystery-of-the-transvestite-and-the-stolen-car-now-a-debate-on-slurs/626766/47 "2012-07-06T21:11:27Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Transphobics don’t need to be white-knighted. But the objects of their phobia do, evidently. People are, of course, free to define what they are and aren’t offended by. I’ve seen it suggested that “transsexual” and “transvestite” are now considered offensive terms by some, however, so I suspect we’re in another game of “chase the euphemism,” which never ends and nobody ever wins. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epic-story-the-mystery-of-the-transvestite-and-the-stolen-car-now-a-debate-on-slurs/626766/48 "2012-07-06T21:15:27Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I’ve seen it suggested that “transsexual” and “transvestite” are now considered offensive terms by some, Suggested by whom and how often? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epic-story-the-mystery-of-the-transvestite-and-the-stolen-car-now-a-debate-on-slurs/626766/49 "2012-07-06T21:29:29Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Suggested by whom and how often? I can’t say how often, but I’ve seen it come up in threads on this board before. Here’s [one thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=247380&page=2) from a while back. Google “transvestite transsexual offensive” and you’ll see a number of hits. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epic-story-the-mystery-of-the-transvestite-and-the-stolen-car-now-a-debate-on-slurs/626766/50 "2012-07-06T21:34:42Z")
Reading the quote you linked to, **KellyM** didn’t say the word transvestite was in and of itself offensive. She said you could offend some one who is a transsexual by calling them a transvestite. Surely you can see how calling somebody ‘just a man in woman’s clothing’ could be offensive? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epic-story-the-mystery-of-the-transvestite-and-the-stolen-car-now-a-debate-on-slurs/626766/51 "2012-07-06T21:51:03Z")
If you’re actually interested and not merely trying to be contrary, you can search on the terms I suggested and find a number of sites where it is debated whether the terms “transsexual” and/or “transvestite” are inherently offensive. Likewise whether “transgendered” (vs. “transgender”) is offensive. My point was that opinions do not appear to be unanimous on which terms are offensive and which are not, and (as has historically been the case with racial terms) opinion and understanding shifts over time. Some people may be intentionally trying to offend, while others maybe just haven’t gotten the most recent newsletter yet. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epic-story-the-mystery-of-the-transvestite-and-the-stolen-car-now-a-debate-on-slurs/626766/52 "2012-07-06T21:54:18Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > If you’re actually interested and not merely trying to be contrary, you can search on the terms I suggested and find a number of sites where it is debated whether the terms “transsexual” and/or “transvestite” are inherently offensive. Likewise whether “transgendered” (vs. “transgender”) is offensive. I’m not just trying to be contrary. But, I also don’t see why I should have to search for your cites. > [@](#): > > My point was that opinions do not appear to be unanimous on which terms are offensive and which are not, and (as has historically been the case with racial terms) opinion and understanding shifts over time. Some people may be intentionally trying to offend, while others maybe just haven’t gotten the most recent newsletter yet. Which is one of the things **Eve** has been saying. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epic-story-the-mystery-of-the-transvestite-and-the-stolen-car-now-a-debate-on-slurs/626766/53 "2012-07-06T22:00:57Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > I’m not just trying to be contrary. But, I also don’t see why I should have to search for your cites. You don’t. ---
**Author:** ![living\_in\_hell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3d9bf3/32.png) [@living\_in\_hell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/living_in_hell)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epic-story-the-mystery-of-the-transvestite-and-the-stolen-car-now-a-debate-on-slurs/626766/54 "2012-07-06T23:19:18Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > You know . . . I try to be a good sport, I really do, and I do not want to become one of those angry, angry people. > > I happened across mean-spirited “sex change” jokes on _Family Guy_ (no surprise, Seth McFarland is a world-class douche) Well you’re off to a great start. :rolleyes: Why would you call him that? Do you even know his stance on LGBTQ issues? Or are you just some uppity white woman sent to enlighten us all with political correctness? I am guessing you whisper “African American” in the presence of Black people, and call Puerto Ricans “Latino” too, right? Get over yourself. It’s language and it sparks discussion. Shutting it down is no different than you deciding it’s all so insensitive and hurtful. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epic-story-the-mystery-of-the-transvestite-and-the-stolen-car-now-a-debate-on-slurs/626766/55 "2012-07-07T00:09:34Z")
Lots of butthurt here today! I found the story to be mildly amusing and not overwhelmingly offensive. Given the euphemistic treadmill phenomenon and inability of even people within minority communities to agree on what terms are OK (even ignoring the reclaiming issue), I think people should be given some slack. Add to that the notion that clinical vs slang sometimes gets confused as neutral vs derogatory. I truly believe no word is inherently good or evil. Words come to mean however people use them. It’s more meaningful to say that if enough people use or have used a word with ill intent, that people using it in a non derogatory way still makes you uncomfortable because you associate it with other negative contexts. It’s probably better to keep it personal and positive. Give a context for your feelings - has someone you know actually told you they don’t like to be called by a certain term? If it’s just a notion you have and you aren’t actually connected to that community, then phrase it as a question and not a statement ("Is it considered OK to use that term?). And rather than chastising, give alternatives. Instead of “that’s offensive, don’t say that” you might try “A lot of people have used that in an insulting way and it bothers us. I or my friends prefer the term X.” Keep in mind that a clinical term isn’t appropriate for every context. If there’s a slangish or informal term that’s still considered positive, try to offer that up too. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epic-story-the-mystery-of-the-transvestite-and-the-stolen-car-now-a-debate-on-slurs/626766/56 "2012-07-07T00:16:57Z")
> [@living\_in\_hell](#): > > Well you’re off to a great start. :rolleyes: > > Why would you call him that? Do you even know his stance on LGBTQ issues? Or are you just some uppity white woman sent to enlighten us all with political correctness? > > I am guessing you whisper “African American” in the presence of Black people, and call Puerto Ricans “Latino” too, right? > > Get over yourself. It’s language and it sparks discussion. Shutting it down is no different than you deciding it’s all so insensitive and hurtful. This from someone who threw a [hissyfit](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=651171) over TMI threads? **Eve** is cool. Back off. ---
**Author:** ![smee\_goan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f07891/32.png) [@smee\_goan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smee_goan)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epic-story-the-mystery-of-the-transvestite-and-the-stolen-car-now-a-debate-on-slurs/626766/57 "2012-07-07T00:29:09Z")
universal joint that started the whole “she” bang. ---
**Author:** ![tesseract](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bb73d2/32.png) [@tesseract](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tesseract)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epic-story-the-mystery-of-the-transvestite-and-the-stolen-car-now-a-debate-on-slurs/626766/58 "2012-07-07T06:05:52Z")
I think that a lot of folks are getting lost in the bigger picture of why **Eve** (or anyone else, including me) was offended. The way I read it, **Eve’s** response was purposely shocking so as to wake people up to the fact that this “epic” story wasn’t funny or epic to everyone. Trust me, the use of the word “tranny” was the least of that story’s problems. I believe that the main point that **Eve was making – and is definitely the point I would like to make – is that that story wasn’t at all funny or epic, but rather degrading, sad, and mean-spirited, to people on the trans spectrum. As Eve** said, trans people are essentially just “human punchlines” to many other people. The protagonist in the story is a guy who will possibly give up his vehicle just to avoid admitting that he had been with one of these social lepers, these human punchlines. Hahaha. It reminds me of something I would have thought was funny when I was about 13, extremely ignorant about trans issues, and called people on trans spectrum “it” because we don’t know if he/she/it is a he or a she, hahahaha! Try to put yourself in the place of someone who is trans and read that story. Does it seem funny to you? ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epic-story-the-mystery-of-the-transvestite-and-the-stolen-car-now-a-debate-on-slurs/626766/59 "2012-07-07T06:24:02Z")
I think you are reading a little bit into it. The man was caught being up to no good. That he was up to no good with a man in woman’s clothing just adds some extra color to the story. And that person was also up to no good, in a criminal way. I’m not seeing victimhood to the degree you seem to be. If anything, the adulterer was made out to be much more of a “human punch line”. I’m gay, but I recognize that gay people can do stupid things in a funny way just the same way straight people can. They don’t deserve special protection from humiliating accounts of their ill conceived antics. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epic-story-the-mystery-of-the-transvestite-and-the-stolen-car-now-a-debate-on-slurs/626766/60 "2012-07-07T06:31:41Z")
And really we don’t even know anything about this person. All we know is they cross dressed. They might not be part of any kind of sexual minority identity. There’s lots of possibilities other than that. This is a “caught in a compromising situation” story, not a “make fun of somebody because they are different” story. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epic-story-the-mystery-of-the-transvestite-and-the-stolen-car-now-a-debate-on-slurs/626766.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epic-story-the-mystery-of-the-transvestite-and-the-stolen-car-now-a-debate-on-slurs/626766.md?page=4)