# Epiphanies about the meanings of words and phrases **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 16, 2006, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epiphanies-about-the-meanings-of-words-and-phrases/364740 "2006-07-16T15:09:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epiphanies-about-the-meanings-of-words-and-phrases/364740/81 "2006-07-21T00:59:36Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] It didn’t occur to me until adulthood what the phrase “to have someone over a barrel” meant in its literal (lewd) sense. [/QUOTE] [The origin does not appear to be particularly lewd](http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-ove2.htm) ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epiphanies-about-the-meanings-of-words-and-phrases/364740/82 "2006-07-21T01:01:15Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] Oh yes, and it didn’t occur to me until adulthood that the phrase “left holding the bag” might be a snipe-hunting reference. [/QUOTE] I googled around a bit, and found some support for this, but also some suport for alternate theories. If you think about it, it doesn’t make much sense, as “being left holding the bag” doesn’t mean “being the one who is the most embarrassed”, it means “being the one left to take the blame”. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epiphanies-about-the-meanings-of-words-and-phrases/364740/83 "2006-07-21T01:07:58Z")
[QUOTE=MaxTheVool] [The origin does not appear to be particularly lewd](http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-ove2.htm) [/QUOTE] Your source isn’t convincing to me. The lewd explanation makes more sense, absent strong evidence to the contrary. The fact that barrels were used as first aid for drowning victims doesn’t detract from other (ahem) _uses_ to which a barrel might be put. Nor does a drowning victim make sense as a metaphor for someone who is about to get, well, _screwed_. A much better metaphor is someone who is _literally_ about to be screwed. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epiphanies-about-the-meanings-of-words-and-phrases/364740/84 "2006-07-21T01:18:26Z")
[QUOTE=MaxTheVool] I googled around a bit, and found some support for this, but also some suport for alternate theories. If you think about it, it doesn’t make much sense, as “being left holding the bag” doesn’t mean “being the one who is the most embarrassed”, it means “being the one left to take the blame”. [/QUOTE] The “one left holding the bag” in snipe hunting is the one who got suckered and received no benefit. Which is how I always understood the phrase. Naught to do with blame. It’s the one who was left out of the game and winds up looking the fool. (Say, are you trying to become my phrase-origin nemesis? 😉 ) ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epiphanies-about-the-meanings-of-words-and-phrases/364740/85 "2006-07-21T01:25:35Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] Your source isn’t convincing to me. The lewd explanation makes more sense, absent strong evidence to the contrary. The fact that barrels were used as first aid for drowning victims doesn’t detract from other (ahem) _uses_ to which a barrel might be put. Nor does a drowning victim make sense as a metaphor for someone who is about to get, well, _screwed_. A much better metaphor is someone who is _literally_ about to be screwed. [/QUOTE] Upon closer reading, it appears that your source doesn’t buy the drowning victim origin either, but points to a single recorded instance of a student being hazed by being rolled while tied to a barrel. Still not convincing to me. The lewd origin makes more sense. It would also explain why the Woodland Daily Democrat seemed embarrassed to use the phrase in 1896. From your source: > [@](#): > > “To use a vulgar expression, a Republican congress gleefully assembled in Washington for the express purpose of getting President Cleveland ‘over a barrel.’" ---
**Author:** ![BluePitbull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9bcb4/32.png) [@BluePitbull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BluePitbull)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epiphanies-about-the-meanings-of-words-and-phrases/364740/86 "2006-07-21T01:31:02Z")
I use to think several meant 7 and only seven. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epiphanies-about-the-meanings-of-words-and-phrases/364740/87 "2006-07-21T01:34:04Z")
Sorry for the multi-posting, but [this site](http://www.wordorigins.org/wordorn.htm) suggests that “over a barrel” might be a spanking metaphor, and points to this bit of verse from 1869: > [@](#): > > I’d like to be a school-marm, > And with the school-marms stand, > With a bad boy over a barrel > And with a spanker in my hand Now _that_ makes sense to me. So maybe it’s not lewd. ---
**Author:** ![lee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lee/32/7455_2.png) [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epiphanies-about-the-meanings-of-words-and-phrases/364740/88 "2006-07-21T10:05:49Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] Huh? I’ve lived in the rural south most of my life and never heard the term used with racial connotations. Nor, for that matter, was it “expected” that cotton pickers would be black. There were plenty of white sharecroppers and white yeoman farmers out picking cotton. In fact, the onerous task of picking cotton is a shared unpleasant memory for generations of Southerners white and black (including both of my parents, who were raised as farm kids during the Depression). The term _might_ have class connotations, but not racial connotations in my experience. [/QUOTE] The song, “I never picked cotton” seems to back this up. Roy Clark, who as far as I can tell was the first to popularize this song, is not black, and the context is clear that his family, with the exception of his father, picked cotton so I don’t think it is referring to race. The song does make it clear that picking cotton is an unpleasant task. ---
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epiphanies-about-the-meanings-of-words-and-phrases/364740/89 "2006-07-21T11:24:20Z")
Piccadilly Circus is not named for a colorful gathering of tents containing elephants and bears and clowns and whatnot. In fact, that meaning of ‘circus’ came from the shape of the tents, which were in fact circles or, if you’re a fan of Latin, circus. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epiphanies-about-the-meanings-of-words-and-phrases/364740/90 "2006-07-21T11:55:10Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] Sorry for the multi-posting, but [this site](http://www.wordorigins.org/wordorn.htm) suggests that “over a barrel” might be a spanking metaphor, and points to this bit of verse from 1869: Now _that_ makes sense to me. So maybe it’s not lewd. [/QUOTE] Here is what the [word detective says](http://www.word-detective.com/032602.html#overabarrel) > [@](#): > > Oddly enough, “over a barrel” comes from a far more benevolent context than its current use would suggest. Before better methods for resuscitation were developed, drowning victims were laid over a barrel, which was then rolled back and forth to dislodge the water in their lungs. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epiphanies-about-the-meanings-of-words-and-phrases/364740/91 "2006-07-21T12:12:51Z")
[QUOTE=Khadaji] Here is what the [word detective says](http://www.word-detective.com/032602.html#overabarrel) [/QUOTE] The word detective just looks _wrong_ on this one. First of all, the drowning victim doesn’t make sense as a metaphor. Someone about to be spanked or flogged makes a lot more sense as a metaphor. Moreover, the word detective cites “The Big Sleep” (1939) as the first usage of the metaphor, whereas the newspaper cite I mentioned above (taken from **MaxThe Vool** ’s link) is from 1896, more than 40 years earlier. And the poem suggesting that spanking is the origin of the metaphor is from 1869. Spanking still makes more sense. The word detective is all wet. (Tee hee.) ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epiphanies-about-the-meanings-of-words-and-phrases/364740/92 "2006-07-21T12:19:37Z")
[QUOTE=lee] The song does make it clear that picking cotton is an unpleasant task. [/QUOTE] According to my parents, cotton husks have very sharp edges, which were apt to slice up your fingers and arms. Because of this, pickers tended to wear long-sleeve flannel shirts to protect their arms. So you get the misery of cutting up your fingers on the husks, combined with the misery of wearing a flannel shirt in the searing Southern sun, combined with the misery of being stooped over all day, dragging a long cotton sack along the ground. ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epiphanies-about-the-meanings-of-words-and-phrases/364740/93 "2006-07-21T13:10:32Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] Heh. Reminds me of the time I went shopping in a London supermarket; the cashier asked me (in broken English) for “half past six pounds” - I only hesistated because I was trying to work out if he meant £6.50 or £6.30. [/QUOTE] This bring back the charming brit vernacular of " It’s forty five past the hour." My brain went, " Whaaaa.." oh. she means quarter to. Not sure if it is regional or just my brit friend who does this. ---
**Author:** ![groo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecd19e/32.png) [@groo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/groo)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epiphanies-about-the-meanings-of-words-and-phrases/364740/94 "2006-07-21T15:57:55Z")
I used to think there was a word in-dict that people only used in print and a completely separate word en-dite that people only used when speaking. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epiphanies-about-the-meanings-of-words-and-phrases/364740/95 "2006-07-21T16:40:51Z")
[QUOTE=iamthewalrus(:3=] I was most of the way through college before I realized that a “rimshot” was that ba-Dum-tssch sound that the drummer does after a cheezy joke. I knew that the word meant a joke like that, but I never connected that it was the rim of the drum. [/QUOTE] A sonic sequence also known as “bada boom bada bing”. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epiphanies-about-the-meanings-of-words-and-phrases/364740/96 "2006-07-21T18:26:21Z")
[QUOTE=Shirley Ujest] This bring back the charming brit vernacular of " It’s forty five past the hour." My brain went, " Whaaaa.." oh. she means quarter to. Not sure if it is regional or just my brit friend who does this. [/QUOTE] That seems to me like a perfectly normal way of putting it. 45 past the hour? Yeah, I don’t see the problem with that. I’d use both that and quarter to interchangeably. I certainly don’t think it’s a British thing. ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epiphanies-about-the-meanings-of-words-and-phrases/364740/97 "2006-07-21T19:07:07Z")
[QUOTE=CookingWithGas] I used to read the word “misled” not knowing what it was, and always wondered what it meant to “misle” (MIGH-zle) somebody. Even though I knew the word when spoken. [/QUOTE] Me too - it was _obviously_ the past participle of misle. I still think it sounds better 😃 . [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epiphanies-about-the-meanings-of-words-and-phrases/364740.md?page=4)