# Epiphany while watching "Turn" ... **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 9, 2015, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epiphany-while-watching-turn/739984 "2015-12-09T20:36:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epiphany-while-watching-turn/739984/1 "2015-12-09T20:36:37Z")
I was watching the revolutionary war spy series “Turn” when suddenly the thought struck me: that the psychopathic villain of the series, the murderer and creepy stalker of the leading lady, was … actually intended to be a portrayal of THE John Graves Simcoe, one of the “founding fathers” of the province of Upper Canada (now Ontario), and its first Lt. Governor-General! :eek: I looked it up, and sure enough, it was. Now, I enjoyed me that series, and I hardly expect it to track history too closely - I mean, I know it takes a lot of inventive license - but that’s one whopper of a character assassination. 😃 In real life, Simcoe was in some ways a remarkably “modern” and sympathetic character. For example, he was instrumental in securing abolition of slavery in the province: > [@](#): > > The principles of the British Constitution do not admit of that slavery which Christianity condemns. The moment I assume the Government of Upper Canada under no modification will I assent to a law that discriminates by dishonest policy between natives of Africa, America, or Europe. > > — John Graves Simcoe, Address to the Legislative Assembly Lots of stuff in our province is named after this fellow, and his influence is everywhere (in my city, for example, he had the major streets - Yonge and Dundas - built). So it’s amusing to see such a hatchet-job performed on someone who is typically held up as a civic example! ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epiphany-while-watching-turn/739984/2 "2015-12-09T21:22:23Z")
I’ve got a certain affection for the program although it does stray from history. A lot. “Simcoe” was supposed to be killed off in the first couple of episodes–but Samuel Roukin’s performance was so interesting that they kept him around. If he’d exited early, few people would have noticed the name. I’m not Canadian–but know we’re _not_ seeing the “real” Simcoe on _Turn_. Other quibbles: The chronology is wrong; the Culper Group was formed years later than we’ve seen on the show. The ferret-faced American spy did _not_ have an affair with Anna Strong–who was a few years older, had kids & may not have been one of the group. The John Andre/Peggy Shippen/Benedict Arnold relationship has been handled badly, so far. (Although a bit too old, J J Feild\* is\* a lovely Andre.) The good? Ian Kahn makes an excellent George Washington–a man in his prime during the Revolution, not an old guy. I’ll even forgive the episode where he envisions the spirit of his dead half-brother at Valley Forge–because it plays off a Parson Weems fable that’s spawned so much mawkish art. So I’ll tune in to _Turn_ when it returns–& will continue to snark about certain bits. Sorry, Canada! The Real John Graves Simcoe had many sterling qualities. Samuel Roukin’s character is the villain you love to hate… ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epiphany-while-watching-turn/739984/3 "2015-12-09T21:50:52Z")
He _does_ make an awesome villain. 😃 In a way, it’s kinda cool. In Canada, we are used to seeing our historical personages as, basically, either boringly virtuous, or boringly nasty colonialists. Having an awesome villain as one’s founding figure is deliciously different. 😉 It’s like having that fellow portrayed in that dull old civic statue turn out to be viewed as Darth Vader. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epiphany-while-watching-turn/739984/4 "2015-12-10T00:51:11Z")
Evil Simcoe – that’s hilarious! I guess it’s not really any different in principle from the evil Americans from the game Assassin’s Creed 3. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epiphany-while-watching-turn/739984/5 "2015-12-10T13:59:00Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > Evil Simcoe – that’s hilarious! I guess it’s not really any different in principle from the evil Americans from the game Assassin’s Creed 3. Heh, not familiar with that game. I’ll be thinking of ‘Evil Simcoe’ when I drive up to the cottage - in Simcoe county. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2015, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epiphany-while-watching-turn/739984/6 "2015-12-16T20:48:34Z")
Slightly apropos - I was reading “Washington’s Spies” (the book on which Turn was based), and I came across this account - written to Washington by a spy, excusing his own failure in an incident that, alas, is forever lost to history: “I had gone through all those dangers that awaited me in getting a regular plan laid, and was beginning to carry it on with every appearance of success, but the Jersey man fell in love with his horse, the doctor narrowly escaped with his life, and the whole scheme was frustrated”. The author’s comment: “the mind boggles”. 😃 Will this show up in season 3? 😉 It is hilarious to imagine what this sentence refers to. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_John\_Marcej](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Richard\_John\_Marcej](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_John_Marcej)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2015, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epiphany-while-watching-turn/739984/7 "2015-12-16T20:59:16Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > He _does_ make an awesome villain. 😃 > > In a way, it’s kinda cool. In Canada, we are used to seeing our historical personages as, basically, either boringly virtuous, or boringly nasty colonialists. > > Having an awesome villain as one’s founding figure is deliciously different. 😉 It’s like having that fellow portrayed in that dull old civic statue turn out to be viewed as Darth Vader. 😃 I wonder if Arnold will eventually become a villain to surpass Simcoe. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epiphany-while-watching-turn/739984/8 "2015-12-17T20:20:13Z")
> [@Richard\_John\_Marcej](#): > > I wonder if Arnold will eventually become a villain to surpass Simcoe. Well, we know he’s gonna “turn” traitor, but his motives appear to be basically outraged sense of entitlement - he’s being cheated out of the recognition he deserves. Simcoe, on the other hand, just plain enjoys being evil. 😉