# Episcopalianism 201: What one curious soft athiest wants to know **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 6, 2004, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/episcopalianism-201-what-one-curious-soft-athiest-wants-to-know/227841 "2004-02-06T14:22:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2004, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/episcopalianism-201-what-one-curious-soft-athiest-wants-to-know/227841/21 "2004-02-14T20:39:46Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > I’m not sure it’s a myth that needs dispelling, really: I didn’t think that any Episcopal church would pause the service, ask if there were any homosexuals present, and then chase them out with a (ceremonial and beautifully gilted) baseball bat. 😉 You use the bishop’s “shepherd’s crook” staff, actually!! 😃 Seriously, with a few rabid, foaming-at-the-mouth exceptions that I’ve had the misfortune to deal with, the point **Skammer** makes about conservative Episcopalians is valid in my experience – almost any of them would be considered “ultra-liberal” in some of the Evangelical churches. Probably the key point is that _ **any question is good** _ – be the parish ultra-liberal or ultra-conservative or anything in between, expressing your own views and asking why the church says or does something is completely kosher. This is true for some conservative denominations and churches, but in many, asking the wrong questions is asking for ostracism. Not so in **any** Episcopal church, so far as my experience goes. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2004, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/episcopalianism-201-what-one-curious-soft-athiest-wants-to-know/227841/22 "2004-02-15T03:34:11Z")
I have to agree with the sentiments expressed by **Polycarp**. Back when I was taking classes prior to joining the church, Father Bob said “Being an Episcopalian means you don’t have to check your brains at the door.” ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2004, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/episcopalianism-201-what-one-curious-soft-athiest-wants-to-know/227841/23 "2004-02-15T04:50:20Z")
I’ll take the alto harmony line and echo what **Polycarp** and **Baker** have said. Questioning is expected and encouraged in the Episcopal churches I’ve been in. Indeed, I’ve described a typical Episcopal Bible study as taking a passage from the Bible, saying, “I don’t understand this” and discussing it until we do. In the church I grew up in, I’d say at least half of the men were engineers and, in the Episcopal Church’s three-legged stool of scripture, reason, and tradition, reason may well have gotten the most focus. **Skammer** , do you want the bass harmony? (I’m assuming **Polycarp** ’s tenor.) 😉 CJ ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/episcopalianism-201-what-one-curious-soft-athiest-wants-to-know/227841/24 "2004-02-16T16:50:44Z")
> [@Siege](#): > > **Skammer** , do you want the bass harmony? (I’m assuming **Polycarp** ’s tenor.) 😉 > > CJ Though I have a rather high-pitched speaking voice, my singing voice is an off-key baritone – there are some favorite songs on which I can sing harmony, an ability which I attribute to a very minor miracle! 😉 Seriously, and trespassing dangerously close to witnessing in MPSIMS, I’d like to post my own parish’s Statement of Welcome, which I think says pretty much what our (parish) church feels about some of the issues that keep coming up: > [@](#): > > St. Mark’s is a Eucharistically centered community that seeks to be the outward and visible sign of the Risen Christ’s reconciling love… > > We understand and believe that faith is a matter of mind as well as heart, and that taking the Bible seriously means it need not always be taken literally… > > We believe God’s love embraces all persons equally, no matter their gender, race, or sexual orientation… > > We believe diversity, acceptance, and inclusivity are strengths to be taught… > > We believe it is important to find ways to treat all people with integrity and respect… > > We believe the Christ calls us to be nothing less than global citizens, that the social expression of love is justice, and that spiritual concerns are inseparable from commitment to the natural world… > > We strive to create a more open and embracing community of faith to nurture the spirit of all who are a part of this community: women and men, children and youth… > > We invite you to make St. Mark’s Episcopal Church your new church home. ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/episcopalianism-201-what-one-curious-soft-athiest-wants-to-know/227841/25 "2004-02-16T18:38:56Z")
The Episcopal Church I now attend (and at which I will be baptized on Sunday) is one of the oldest in the country (constructed in 1700), and the families that attend go waaaaaaaaaaaaay back. Surprisingly, I’ve found them to be very open and cordial. The Diocese of Virginia (IIRC, the largest in the country) voted to support Bishop Robinson’s appointment as bishop, but did so more out of a recognition that each diocese should be free to elect bishops as it sees fit. The general tenor at my church is against the ordinantion of homosexuals; however, I was able to voice my support for such ordinations and was thanked for my contribution to the discussion (I felt like I was back at my old Unitarian church). My point (and I do have one around here somewhere) is that even some congregations that one would expect to be conservative (here in VA, for instance) may fool you. I’d urge you to make a few phone calls, but more importantly, pay a few visits and listen, talk, and ask questions. I know from asking my rector that there are many, many Episcopal clergy in Northern VA who are openly gay and where the congregations have a high number of gay communicants (mixed right in there with the blue haired ladies). Oh, and I can’t wait to try the wine…I’m hoping for a saucy little merlot with a hint of black currants, a great nose, and legs from here to the floor. And some olive oil and grated cheese for the bread - that’ll be the perfect snack about 11:30 Sunday morning. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/episcopalianism-201-what-one-curious-soft-athiest-wants-to-know/227841/26 "2004-02-16T22:38:11Z")
> [@Siege](#): > > **Skammer** , do you want the bass harmony? (I’m assuming **Polycarp** ’s tenor.) 😉 > > CJ I may suddenly be too busy to be in the choir… it looks like I’ve been made (as of today) senior warden. _shudder_ With my singing voice, it actually puts me in a place to do less damage. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/episcopalianism-201-what-one-curious-soft-athiest-wants-to-know/227841/27 "2004-02-17T02:20:31Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > I may suddenly be too busy to be in the choir… it looks like I’ve been made (as of today) senior warden. _shudder_ > > With my singing voice, it actually puts me in a place to do less damage. [Congratulations / commisserations] ← select the one you find most appropriate. You will be in my prayers. I used to work for a state agency where my boss was also a co-parishioner, and did a lot of volunteer work after hours for him and the parish during his term as Senior Warden, so I know better than almost anyone else who hasn’t held the office what it’s like. (An only half-joking suggestion: Chain your rector to his desk – if he resigns during your term, as ours did, you suddenly become the Ecclesiastical Authority for the parish, and your workload quadruples.) ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/episcopalianism-201-what-one-curious-soft-athiest-wants-to-know/227841/28 "2004-02-17T02:36:10Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > (An only half-joking suggestion: Chain your rector to his desk – if he resigns during your term, as ours did, you suddenly become the Ecclesiastical Authority for the parish, and your workload quadruples.) Funny you should mention that – our Rector actually did resign, last summer, and we are in the middle of a search process to find a new one. So I am the Ecclesiastical Authority for the (pretty large) parish, frighteningly enough. However, our parish recently voted to withhold its annual pledge from the diocese (we’re giving directly to diocesan ministries instead) and to join the Network of Anglican Communion Dioceses and Parishes – so there’s always the chance that the Bishop could dissolve the whole vestry, remove our clergy, declare us a mission congregation, and appoint a vicar\*. :eek: So I’ve got that going for me. Seriously – I covet your prayers. It’s going to be a long year. \*probably not a very good chance, he’s pretty supportive ---
**Author:** ![LH75](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lh75/32/4438_2.png) [@LH75](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LH75)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/episcopalianism-201-what-one-curious-soft-athiest-wants-to-know/227841/29 "2004-02-17T03:01:12Z")
friend skammer, i hope things go well. we joined our small congregation last easter. that was the day t hey introduced the man that would be our new rector beginning in june. two months after father grant arrived, the vote to confirm bishop robinson took place. we also had a new bishop confirmed at that same convention. all indications so far are that the diocese we are part of is choosing to ignore the controversy and go on about our business. there is no reason why we have to let the sexuality of a bishop in another state define our church, or divide us one against the other. at our state convention, the robinson confirmation was not even on the agenda. the sunday after the confirmation, father grant had a question and answer period in place of the sermon. one couple stood and said they were new to our church that day because of the confirmation. they have a gay son and know of the problems he had faced. another couple stood in the middle of the discussion and walked out without a word. the first couple stayed on and registered, the second couple never returned. we had one vestry member resign, giving the robinson confirmation as the reason. this coming sunday is the bishop’s annual visitation at our church. sunflower and i will be received at the service. (apparently, our roman cathoilic confirmation suffices, so we need only be received) ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/episcopalianism-201-what-one-curious-soft-athiest-wants-to-know/227841/30 "2004-02-17T04:24:09Z")
**longhair** , I’m glad to hear you have found a home in the Episcopal Church. Welcome. I’m glad that your parish has managed to avoid most of the divisiveness that has torn my diocese and many others. I’ll join with you in praying that the church comes out stronger and more unified. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2004, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/episcopalianism-201-what-one-curious-soft-athiest-wants-to-know/227841/31 "2004-03-29T04:22:43Z")
It seems fitting to dig this up, and it hasn’t been 3 months yet, so I’ll ask here instead of in a new thread. I’m sure a mod will let me know if that would have been a better choice. OK, I read a few books, visited a couple Episcopal churches, found one that (so far) I like, have attended a half dozen services, seem to know when to kneel, etc. What’s the etiquette concerning joining? How long can people typically hang around without seeming like freeloaders? I really don’t want to seem like one, and I have no problem making a financial contribution, but I’m also still questioning, and, perhaps more importantly, unbaptized, which makes joining more drawn-out and complicated. A couple of people have asked me if I’m a member yet. I’m not familiar enough with attending church in general to know what’s expected in terms of joining… I plan on speaking to an official tomorrow, but sometimes the official line is different then what’s actually expected… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/episcopalianism-201-what-one-curious-soft-athiest-wants-to-know/227841.md?page=1)