# Episode II- Title Named (Spoiler, i guess) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 6, 2001, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/episode-ii-title-named-spoiler-i-guess/75151 "2001-08-06T18:35:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Sir\_Rhosis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@Sir\_Rhosis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Rhosis)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2001, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/episode-ii-title-named-spoiler-i-guess/75151/41 "2001-08-07T03:54:42Z")
For or five years ago, I recall reading something that purported the titles of the first three films to be: The Balance of The Force The Rise of The Empire The Something of The Something Not bad titles, first two anyway. Now I’ll agree that “The Phantom Menace” is just barely serial B-title enough without being totally over the top, unlike “Attack of The Clones.” And it seems to me that try as he might, Lucas has never been able to get the subtitle “A New Hope” to really catch on outside of extremely devoted fans. I usually just say “The original Star Wars” myself. I look forward to seeing Christopher Lee in a Star Wars movie. That’s about it for me as far as Episode II goes. And where the hell did this “Episode” business come from? I know they used them in the original crawl-ups, but never as part of the official titles. Are we now going to see the second trilogy retitled with “Episode IV, V, and VI”? Has anybody noticed that on the latest videocasette re-release we have a film entitled “Indiana Jones and the Raiders of The Lost Ark”? Have the actual film titles been changed? Sorry for the hijack. Sir Rhosis ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2001, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/episode-ii-title-named-spoiler-i-guess/75151/42 "2001-08-07T04:09:01Z")
Ahem, Maestro? (sung to the tune of "Send In The Clowns) Isn’t this strange? Just me and you I crashed the Falcon here on Tatooine You’re on Naboo Send in the clones There ought to be clones C3PO and R2D2 will get less screen time than Jar Jar and Boba Fett, too! Where are the clones? There ought to be clones Episode One Really blew chunks I thought like you thought Ep 2 wouldn’t suck Sorry, my dear Where are the clones? There ought to be clones Don’t bother, they’re here! ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2001, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/episode-ii-title-named-spoiler-i-guess/75151/43 "2001-08-07T04:16:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\*From the Star Wars website- > > “Attack of the Clones joins The Phantom Menace, A New Hope, The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi as chapter titles in the six-episode Skywalker saga. It harkens back to the sense of pure fun, imagination and excitement that characterized the classic movie serials and pulp space fantasy adventures that inspired the Star Wars saga.” > > \*\* I think Lucas is afraid. I think he knows that when _Lord of the Rings_ comes out this fall, it’ll be compared to his films - a comparisom wholly to his detrimant. I think that once the public sees what a _real_ Epic SF movie looks like, they’ll laugh at his feeble attems at myth-making. So he’s not going to compete. Instead of aspiring to greatness (like he did with Ep.5), he’s just going to pump out an overpriced B-movie. He can’t allow himself to be second place, but he knows he can’t win. [sub]Wow. I’m not half a rabid Tolkienoid, am I?[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Atreyu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@Atreyu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atreyu)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2001, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/episode-ii-title-named-spoiler-i-guess/75151/44 "2001-08-07T04:53:18Z")
I just spent a little less than five minutes trying to come up with a better title: The Clone Uprising The Clone Insurgency Shadow of the Clones But I think the word “clone” is just a bit much to have in a movie title. It just doesn’t fit. Even though I know nothing of Episode II’s plot, I can suspect that it is Palpatine, representing the Sith, who is using the clones as the instrument for his own nefarious meains. Why not use the word “Sith” in the title, like the way “Jedi” was used in **Return of the Jedi**? The Mark of the Sith The Ways of the Sith Shadow of the Sith Attack of the Sith I think even **Attack of the Sith** sounds much better than Lucas’s proposed hokey title. What is the man _thinking_? ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2001, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/episode-ii-title-named-spoiler-i-guess/75151/45 "2001-08-07T05:18:40Z")
As in _Star Wars: The Duplicate Conflict_. Not bad, maybe I should be in the movie business. ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2001, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/episode-ii-title-named-spoiler-i-guess/75151/46 "2001-08-07T05:27:41Z")
> [@](#): > > _Orig. by Heath Doolin_ > Sawed off little pumpkin headed yuppie larvae … Excuse me. I’m still laughing, and it hurts. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![delphica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9a140/32.png) [@delphica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/delphica)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2001, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/episode-ii-title-named-spoiler-i-guess/75151/47 "2001-08-07T05:30:40Z")
Not to turn a perfectly good pit rant into an actual discussion of SW ( **Cervaise** , very insightful post about Jar Jar, btw), but I don’t see how “clone” doesn’t fit for a title … the Clone Wars have been a carrot dangling in front of Star Wars fans for just about ever. It’s the one actual incident alluded to in Star Wars about the rise of the Emperor. It’s clearly famous, as Luke is mondo impressed to learn that his father fought in the Clone Wars. Maybe Lucas has some plan of titles with corresponding themes: Star Wars is to Phantom Menace (both sort of vague and ominous)\* Empire Strikes Back is to Attack of the Clones (the Emperor’s initiatives, also a contrast with defense vs. attack) Return of the Jedi is to something with Sith (I’m obviously guessing here, but it would set up a nice contrast with the Sith and the Jedi) - also, if you consider it to be A New Hope and Phantom Menace, you have a contrast with hopeful and menacing. Or maybe I just have too much time on my hands to sit around and think about this stuff … ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Rhosis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@Sir\_Rhosis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Rhosis)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2001, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/episode-ii-title-named-spoiler-i-guess/75151/48 "2001-08-07T05:43:53Z")
I remember now: The three titles I heard bandied about years ago were, as mentioned: The Balance of The Force The Rise of The Empire and The Fall of The Jedi. Again, excellent titles, imho, but sadly not to be. Sir Rhosis ---
**Author:** ![MeanJoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanjoe/32/5693_2.png) [@MeanJoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanJoe)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2001, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/episode-ii-title-named-spoiler-i-guess/75151/49 "2001-08-07T08:20:42Z")
Okay, I’m trying very hard not to diss a movie that we will not know how good or bad it is based just on the sub-title but… Did anyone get the name of the horse that kicked GL in the head out at Skywalker Ranch? I’m overwhelmed with this gnawing fear now. If he screws up “The Clone Wars” storyline I’ve been dying to see for decades… let’s just say it’ll take a Wookie to remove my foot from a unnamed person’s rubbish compartment. ---
**Author:** ![Redboss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8baadc/32.png) [@Redboss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Redboss)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2001, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/episode-ii-title-named-spoiler-i-guess/75151/50 "2001-08-07T08:22:07Z")
Excuse me, but **I** am a clone, and I see nothing wrong with the title Attack of the Clones. Perfectly reasonable. Redboss ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2001, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/episode-ii-title-named-spoiler-i-guess/75151/51 "2001-08-07T09:10:22Z")
You can consider this a spoiler if you like, but I’ll be as vague as I can: +++++++++++++++ SPOILER ALERT!!! +++++++++++++++ [sub]Episode II really plays like only half a story. The other half, I assume, will be Episode III[/sub] ++++++++++++++++ END SPOILER!!! ++++++++++++++++ ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2001, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/episode-ii-title-named-spoiler-i-guess/75151/52 "2001-08-07T09:53:18Z")
Please, people, I’m only going to say this one more time… _ **IT SHOULD BE CALLED “THE CLONE WARS”!!!** _ As has been mentioned, it’s what the Star Wars fans have been expecting. We know it. It’s famous. It’s been dangling in front of our faces for decades. NOW GIVE IT TO US, GEORGE! Give it to us, and we may forgive the monstrosity that you gave us in Episode I! I’ll even forgive the midichlorian debacle! ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2001, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/episode-ii-title-named-spoiler-i-guess/75151/53 "2001-08-07T16:35:09Z")
It occurs to me that Lucas, in his Hughesian isolation, might have gone a little around the bend, and is using this title to make a subtle political statement against the growing “menace” of real-world human cloning. When today’s kids grow up into voting adults, what kind of association will they have with the word “clone”? Okay, I’m grasping at straws here, but there has to be **some** reasonable explanation, right? ---
**Author:** ![don\_Jaime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b4bc9f/32.png) [@don\_Jaime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_Jaime)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2001, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/episode-ii-title-named-spoiler-i-guess/75151/54 "2001-08-07T17:04:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cervaise \* > \*\*Okay, I’m grasping at straws here, but there has to be **some** reasonable explanation, right? \*\* Yeah, Lucas is a moron. Between this cruddy title and the obsession with Episode This ‘n’ That… _Star Wars: The Clone Wars_ all the way, baby. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2001, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/episode-ii-title-named-spoiler-i-guess/75151/55 "2001-08-07T19:52:47Z")
I don’t neccesarily want to defend Lucas here, but just to point out a few things. “Lucas won’t let science fiction grow up”. Yes I agree. See, the fans who were kids and loved the first trilogy seem to want the second trilogy to be DIFFERENT! They want the new trilogy to reflect their more mature tastes. They want a two hour duel between Darth Maul and Boba Fett. But Lucas is taking pains to show that he isn’t making a film for these people. Read that again. Lucas is not making the second trilogy for the Star Wars fans. He isn’t out to please the fans. Sure the fans hate the ewoks, they hate JarJar. But he DOESN’T CARE. His goal is to make a movie to appeal to the average movie-goer. He is trying to make a movie that appeals to the same kind of person who liked the originals, NOT the same person 20 years later. You can complain that he didn’t succeed at this with the Phantom Menace, but stop complaining that he didn’t make the film that the Star Wars fanatics wanted. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2001, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/episode-ii-title-named-spoiler-i-guess/75151/56 "2001-08-07T23:06:16Z")
The hell with that. I want Grandeur. I want High Drama. I want Tragedy and Epiphany. I want a Sense of Awe. The old Star Wars movies provided all these. The Phantom Menace didn’t. And it seems as though the next one won’t, either. I want a movie which believes in the strength of its convictions. ---
**Author:** ![CyberHippy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dec6dc/32.png) [@CyberHippy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CyberHippy)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2001, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/episode-ii-title-named-spoiler-i-guess/75151/57 "2001-08-07T23:53:09Z")
Gathered this morning from [slashdot.org](http://slashdot.org) (sorry about repeats, no time to edit): Attack of the Killer Human Stem Cells. Killer Klones from Outer Space Episode II: Hype Episode II: Luke’s Dad Was a Whiner, Too Episode II: Reporting is Pravda the Clone Attacking Episode II: Bloodsucking Clones from Pittsburgh Episode II: Plan Clone From Outer Space Episode II: Clones Are EEEEEEVIL Episode II: Lucas Must Die Star Wars Episode 2: All your clone are belong to us Send in the Clones! Tears of a Clone Jar-Jar’s Big Adventure Star Wars Episode II: The Second Episode Star Wars II - Just like 83/84, only more missle based… Star Wars II 1/2 - The smell of Lucas Episode II, JarJar Binks, Return of The Kingfish Star Wars: Dude, Where’s My Clone? Episode II: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Force Star Wars : Clone Ranger - With Jar-Jar as Tonto??? Star Wars: Episode 2: The Secret of Clone Inish Star Wars 2: Electric Boogaloo Star Wars Two: STAR HARDER Star Wars Two : Anakin Skywalker and the Planet of Doom Episode II: Insane Clone Posse The Jar-Jar Horror Picture Show Star Wars: Titanic Star Wars: I think I’m a clone again… Episode II: Not Quite Human Episode II: More Human Than Human Star Wars: Temple of Clone Episode II: Raiders of The Lost Clone Episode II: Who Clones Last Clones Best Episode II: Three Men and a Clone Episode II: Clones in Toyland Episode II: Some Clones Like it Hot Episode II: The Cloned Suspects Episode II: Clone and Dagger Episode II: Clone as Clone Can Episode II: Clone this! Episode II: Clon-o Trigger Episode II: Clonebusters Episode II: Jar-Jar Rastafari Episode II: May The Clones Not Be With You Episode II: Clones Galore! Episode II: A Clone! A Clone! My Kingdom for a Clone! Episode II: Citizen Clone Dolly the Jedi Slayer MST3K Presents: Star Wars: The Clonus Horror Yoda: Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to… SUFFERING. Crow T Robot: No, this movie leads to suffering. Joel: Now that’s not nice. It’s accurate, but it’s not nice. Tom Servo: Wouldn’t it be “Suffering, hate leads to.”? heh heh heh. Joel: “It ain’t easy being green and wrinkled and 850 years old.” Dancin Santa: I was hoping for “Jar Jar’s fiery death” or something similar. “Attack of the Clones” only makes me fear the creation of an entire army of Jar Jars. Cruel World: what do you think IS under those stormtrooper helmets? FishStick: That would tend to explain a lot. I had originally wondered how the Empire managed to recruit and train an army of 100% incompetent stormtroopers. Then I was told they were all clones. “Who did they clone, Bozo the clown?”, I replied. I guess I wasn’t that far off. 😉 From Star Wars the Musical: Anakin: Quick, send in the clones Obi-Wan: Don’t bother, they’re here Lucas: Isn’t it rich, isn’t it queer, Losing my timing so late in my career SW Fans: There ought to be clones Lucas and Fox Studios:: Well maybe next year Ten years after the events of The Phantom Menace, not only has the galaxy undergone significant change, but so have our familiar heroes Obi-Wan McDonald, Padmé Amiclownia and Anakin [Bobo] Skywalker as they are thrown together again for the first time since the Clown Federation invasion of Naboo. Anakin has grown into the accomplished Clown apprentice of Obi-Wan, who himself has transitioned from student to Clown Master. The two Clowns are assigned to protect Padmé whose life is threatened by a faction of political separatists. As relationships form and powerful forces collide, these heroes face choices that will impact not only their own fates, but the destiny of the Republic. Hey man, watch it. Clones are people, two! And in further news, Episode III will be named, “I Wipe my Ass With Your Money”, and will consist entirely of 15 minutes of Hayden Christensen putting on the Darth Vader outfit, saying “This is heavy,” and “Okay, I’m ready to be Evil now.” ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2001, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/episode-ii-title-named-spoiler-i-guess/75151/58 "2001-08-07T23:59:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cervaise \* > \*\*It occurs to me that Lucas, in his Hughesian isolation, might have gone a little around the bend, and is using this title to make a subtle political statement against the growing “menace” of real-world human cloning. When today’s kids grow up into voting adults, what kind of association will they have with the word “clone”? > > Okay, I’m grasping at straws here, but there has to be **some** reasonable explanation, right? \*\* Just for the record, Lucas is hardly in seclusion. Shit, I just saw him last Sunday when I went to see Kiss of the Dragon. He was there with his daughter. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Rhosis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@Sir\_Rhosis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Rhosis)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2001, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/episode-ii-title-named-spoiler-i-guess/75151/59 "2001-08-08T05:16:07Z")
Just saw a quote on the Sci-Fi wire-- Ewan MacGgregor, upon learning of the title, called it, IIRC, a “terrible terrible title.” Sir Rhosis ---
**Author:** ![Mac\_Guffin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mac\_Guffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mac_Guffin)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2001, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/episode-ii-title-named-spoiler-i-guess/75151/60 "2001-08-08T14:29:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Miller \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Cervaise \* > > \*\*It occurs to me that Lucas, in his Hughesian isolation, might have gone a little around the bend, and is using this title to make a subtle political statement against the growing “menace” of real-world human cloning. When today’s kids grow up into voting adults, what kind of association will they have with the word “clone”? > > > > Okay, I’m grasping at straws here, but there has to be **some** reasonable explanation, right? \*\* > > Just for the record, Lucas is hardly in seclusion. Shit, I just saw him last Sunday when I went to see Kiss of the Dragon. He was there with his daughter. \*\* It is too bad you were unaware of this travesty of a title, or ya could have smacked him upside the head. _BAP!_ “What are you THINKING man?” [http://www.theforce.net](http://www.theforce.net) had some conjecture about George’s rationale of the title. It seems that there is a link between Eps I and II and “Young Indiana Jones” From the website, > [@](#): > > Title of Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace > Title of Young Indiana Jones 10: The Phantom Train of Doom > > Title of Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones > Title of Young Indiana Jones 12: Attack of the Hawkmen Interesting? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/episode-ii-title-named-spoiler-i-guess/75151.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/episode-ii-title-named-spoiler-i-guess/75151.md?page=4)