# Epstein Suicide **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 10, 2019, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451 "2019-08-10T13:21:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Tigers2B1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc29f/32.png) [@Tigers2B1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tigers2B1)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/81 "2019-08-11T15:47:56Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Epstein’s death is so convenient for lots of very powerful people. Notwithstanding **Larry Borgia** ’s skepticisms (seriously, a _Borgia_ doubting a suspicious convenient death? ;)), and the circumstance show such amazing incompetence on the part of the ostensible guardians, that one had to be thinking foul play. Epstein was probably the highest-profile most well connected criminal in the country. One who had yet to testify at trial. This together with his prior suicide attempt, then days later being taken off of suicide watch, and then provided with the means to hang himself certainly creates a suspicion imo. Definitely needs investigation. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/82 "2019-08-11T16:28:46Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > Now? Even Trump must have realized it would be suspicious to tweet about Epstein’s death before it happened. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/83 "2019-08-11T16:31:45Z")
> [@skyr](#): > > I won’t be at all surprised if it turned out that Bill Clinton was involved in the sex crimes. We already know from the documents that were unsealed Friday that one of the sex slaves has said she was forced to have sex with former Democrat Gov Bill Richardson and former Democrat Sen George Mitchell. That same woman DID NOT implicate Trump : [The Biggest Bombshells in Newly Unsealed Jeffrey Epstein Documents](https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-biggest-bombshells-in-newly-unsealed-jeffrey-epstein-documents) > > When you consider that Trump traveled in the same circles with these people before he became president and now, as President, has access to surveillance and intelligence info that other people don’t, he probably knows more about what happened than what has been publicly released. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he has a reason for making these allegations against the Clinton. So this woman didn’t accuse Clinton or Trump. And from this, you conclude Clinton must be guilty and Trump must be innocent. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/84 "2019-08-11T16:34:04Z")
From all appearance, Trump actually is one of the few high profile people who didn’t like Epstein. Amazingly. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/85 "2019-08-11T17:41:36Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > From all appearance, Trump actually is one of the few high profile people who didn’t like Epstein. > Amazingly. Though, as noted earlier, that apparently wasn’t always the case. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/86 "2019-08-11T17:46:46Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > From all appearance, Trump actually is one of the few high profile people who didn’t like Epstein. > Amazingly. Most of Epstein’s high profile friends, including Trump, stopped liking him around 2006. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/87 "2019-08-11T18:02:58Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Even Trump must have realized it would be suspicious to tweet about Epstein’s death before it happened. LOL, good one. 😉 There are suspicious facts surrounding this death and none point to Clinton involvement. In the little backwater county where I was involved in the legal system for 20 years, this death would never have occurred. This was a high profile inmate. He was suicidal. Even those of us peripherally involved with inmate custody understand that alleged pedophiles pose a particular risk of harm when housed in a general jail/prison population. They have targets on their backs as a matter of honor among other inmates in custody. That he was a highly publicized inmate put him doubly at risk. For these reasons alone, he should have been held in administrative segregation from day one, not housed with a cellmate accused of murdering 4 police officers. Once it was established he was suicidal, he should have been monitored 24/7. He wasn’t. Why did Bill Barr take such a particular interest in where Epstein was housed pending trial proceedings, removing him from Rikers? That fact alone is jaw dropping, that the highest level official in the land would involve himself in housing decisions routinely and solely determined by the Federal Bureau of Prisons. Why was Epstein initially placed with a potentially dangerous cellmate? After the July 23rd incident, why was he not constantly monitored in ad seg? Whether he was attacked or attempted suicide, he was clearly at risk of one danger or the other. Why was he given materials that could be used to commit suicide? I heard someone this morning who had spent time in that facility say that the bedding was as flimsy as paper, not useful for hanging oneself, by design. If true, what materials did Epstein have/use to hang himself? Who had the access and authority to create these dangerous conditions? Why was Trump so eager to propagate the Clinton conspiracy theory, and so immediately after the Epstein death? I agree with others that Trump’s propensity for projection adds to the suspicious nature of this. Taken alone, it would not mean much. But when taken with other known facts, well… With Barr at the helm, there is no chance we’ll have a clean investigation into this. Even if we do, it would be a heavy lift to prove outside encouragement to suicide that would rise to the level of a chargeable crime. Nice diversion for Trump and McConnell from white supremacist shootings, though, and convenient for a lot of powerful men in this country. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/88 "2019-08-11T18:06:10Z")
There are lots of very powerful people who are glad that Epstein is dead and want the whole matter to be buried with him. Very likely it will be. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/89 "2019-08-11T18:10:25Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Most of Epstein’s high profile friends, including Trump, stopped liking him around 2006. Trump banned Epstein from Mar a Lago in 1999\* and cut business ties in 2004. He also was apparently happy to speak to lawyers for people suing Epstein. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/90 "2019-08-11T18:57:28Z")
> [@skyr](#): > > I won’t be at all surprised if it turned out that Bill Clinton was involved in the sex crimes. We already know from the documents that were unsealed Friday that one of the sex slaves has said she was forced to have sex with former Democrat Gov Bill Richardson and former Democrat Sen George Mitchell. That same woman DID NOT implicate Trump : [The Biggest Bombshells in Newly Unsealed Jeffrey Epstein Documents](https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-biggest-bombshells-in-newly-unsealed-jeffrey-epstein-documents) > > When you consider that Trump traveled in the same circles with these people before he became president and now, as President, has access to surveillance and intelligence info that other people don’t, he probably knows more about what happened than what has been publicly released. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he has a reason for making these allegations against the Clinton. Both Clinton and Trump have associated with Epstein, they’ve both ridden on his plane, they’ve both attended his parties. Only one of them has boasted about visiting the Miss Teen USA beauty pageant dressing room; which one was that? ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/91 "2019-08-11T19:07:24Z")
The NYT has reported that the way he was housed goes against standard protocol for his jailers: [https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/11/nyregion/epstein-death-manhattan-correctional-center.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/11/nyregion/epstein-death-manhattan-correctional-center.html) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/92 "2019-08-11T19:57:04Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > There are suspicious facts surrounding this death and none point to Clinton involvement. It’s ridiculous to think that Bill Clinton, who’s been out of office for eighteen years, would have the power to arrange to have somebody killed in prison. > [@Aspenglow](#): > > Why was Trump so eager to propagate the Clinton conspiracy theory, and so immediately after the Epstein death? I agree with others that Trump’s propensity for projection adds to the suspicious nature of this. Taken alone, it would not mean much. But when taken with other known facts, well… It’s suspicious whenever somebody starts naming suspects before there’s even an official accusation that a crime has occurred. It’s a sign that somebody had foreknowledge of the crime and knew he would be a suspect in the eventual investigation. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/93 "2019-08-11T19:59:13Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > There are lots of very powerful people who are glad that Epstein is dead and want the whole matter to be buried with him. > Very likely it will be. No doubt a lot of people are glad that Epstein is dead. The question is who will be glad when the investigation into his death is closed. ---
**Author:** ![skyr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/54ee81/32.png) [@skyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/skyr)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2019, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/94 "2019-08-12T00:23:12Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > Both Clinton and Trump have associated with Epstein, they’ve both ridden on his plane, they’ve both attended his parties. Only one of them has boasted about visiting the Miss Teen USA beauty pageant dressing room; which one was that? Well, there is a lot we don’t know about yet, but just based on what we know so far, it appears that [Clinton has lied about the trips he took on Epstein’s plane](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/flight-manifests-reveal-bill-clinton-traveled-with-epstein-six-times-not-the-four-times-he-admitted). That’s just a **little** suspicious. There is also [the comment from Nancy Pelosi’s daughter](https://twitter.com/sfpelosi/status/1147657745253855233) predicting that “some of our faves” would end up being implicated in the Epstein case. OK, maaaaybe she was talking about Bill Richardson and George Mitchell, but I suspect she had someone else in mind. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2019, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/95 "2019-08-12T00:54:23Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Epstein’s death is so convenient for lots of very powerful people. Notwithstanding **Larry Borgia** ’s skepticisms (seriously, a _Borgia_ doubting a suspicious convenient death? ;)), and the circumstance show such amazing incompetence on the part of the ostensible guardians, that one had to be thinking foul play. 9/11 was convenient for a lot of warmongers. It doesn’t follow that said warmongers blew up the towers. I’m not saying that it’s impossible that Epstein was whacked. I’m just saying I’d like to see some evidence. A bunch of people would have to be in on it. Guards would need to be bribed, security measures circumvented. But so far I’m seeing nothing but people Just Asking Questions. If there’s actually evidence, I’m open minded. But right now suicide seems the most likely explanation. Lol at your joke, though. 🙂 I was reading a book on the Renaissance when I picked my name. I don’t really like it but after 19 years it feels like my board identity now. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2019, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/96 "2019-08-12T01:07:15Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > But right now suicide seems the most likely explanation. This is what I think as well. Epstein fit the profile of somebody who would commit suicide. And I don’t think there was any plan to make it easy for him to kill himself. Killing Epstein while he was being guarded in prison would have required competence. Epstein being able to kill himself while people were trying to keep him alive would have required incompetence. And I find it a lot more plausible to attribute incompetence to the current administration than competence. > [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > Lol at your joke, though. 🙂 I was reading a book on the Renaissance when I picked my name. I don’t really like it but after 19 years it feels like my board identity now. Tell me about it. I happened to be reading a Winsor McCay book the day I picked a new username and here I am twenty years later. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2019, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/97 "2019-08-12T01:09:20Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Tell me about it. I happened to be reading a Winsor McCay book the day I picked a new username and here I am twenty years later. And if I was OldGuy when I became a charter member, just think of how old I must be now. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2019, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/98 "2019-08-12T01:16:19Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Trump banned Epstein from Mar a Lago in 1999\* and cut business ties in 2004. He also was apparently happy to speak to lawyers for people suing Epstein. Hey, what’s up with that asterisk after 1999? Is that a typo? Or did you intend to provide a footnote or something? Are there cites for these claims? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2019, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/99 "2019-08-12T01:25:01Z")
I don’t think Epstein was ‘whacked’. But I wouldn’t be surprised if some lawyer didn’t pass along a message to him that all his friends have turned against him, that they’ll make sure his family will go through hell if he testifies, that he’ll be whacked in prison for sure anyway, and it would just be peachy for everyone if he took the honorable way out. Then all they had to do was bribe an administrator or just convince the guards to look the other way. See ‘The Godfather Part II’ for instructions on how to do this. Frank Pentangeli went out that way. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2019, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/100 "2019-08-12T01:41:16Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I don’t think Epstein was ‘whacked’. But I wouldn’t be surprised if some lawyer didn’t pass along a message to him that all his friends have turned against him, that they’ll make sure his family will go through hell if he testifies, that he’ll be whacked in prison for sure anyway, and it would just be peachy for everyone if he took the honorable way out. Then all they had to do was bribe an administrator or just convince the guards to look the other way. > > See ‘The Godfather Part II’ for instructions on how to do this. Frank Pentangeli went out that way. We should keep an eye on the people who’ve talked to Epstein recently and see if any of them turn up dead. After all, if somebody passed a message like this to Epstein they wouldn’t want a witness left. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451.md?page=6)