# Epstein Suicide **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 10, 2019, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451 "2019-08-10T13:21:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2019, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/101 "2019-08-12T01:56:13Z")
I suspect the way it is done is always with an eye towards deniability. No one is going to say, 'Hey, I’ll give you a hundred thousand to take that guy off suicide watch. Instead all you have to do is let the bribee know who you work for, then say something casual like, 'Man, it must suck to see a pedophile sitting pretty in here. You must hate having him on suicide watch. Well, if anything ever happens to the guy and you get blamed for it, come see me. I’ve helped people in your situation before…" Unlike TV and the movies, high end corruption is almost never overt. People know how the game is played, and don’t have to say anything that would be prosecutable to get what they want. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2019, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/102 "2019-08-12T02:55:58Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Except I think he used a sheet or something. You’ve never played minecraft ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2019, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/103 "2019-08-12T03:57:50Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I suspect the way it is done is always with an eye towards deniability. No one is going to say, 'Hey, I’ll give you a hundred thousand to take that guy off suicide watch. Instead all you have to do is let the bribee know who you work for, then say something casual like, 'Man, it must suck to see a pedophile sitting pretty in here. You must hate having him on suicide watch. Well, if anything ever happens to the guy and you get blamed for it, come see me. I’ve helped people in your situation before…" > > Unlike TV and the movies, high end corruption is almost never overt. People know how the game is played, and don’t have to say anything that would be prosecutable to get what they want. No, the first rule of prison corruption is always collect your bribe in advance. I can’t count how many times I saw guys get burnt when they helped some prisoner escape who promised to send them money after he got home. ---
**Author:** ![pullin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c57346/32.png) [@pullin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pullin)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2019, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/104 "2019-08-12T10:11:09Z")
Dang it. I’ve still lost the pool. As I pointed out in [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21769129&postcount=305) post following the last attempt, I had October. We kept the pool going and I had hopes his suicide would be rescheduled for later, just for appearances. Oh well, winner still buys drinks, so it’ll be a fun evening. And one subhuman has been removed from our planet - so it’s all good. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![DaveRaver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daveraver/32/1078_2.png) [@DaveRaver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaveRaver)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2019, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/105 "2019-08-12T18:30:41Z")
Has anyone seen the closed circuit TV footage of his alleged suicide? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2019, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/106 "2019-08-12T18:37:03Z")
I haven’t heard anything about such footage. Do you know that it exists? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2019, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/107 "2019-08-12T18:44:48Z")
> [@DaveRaver](#): > > Has anyone seen the closed circuit TV footage of his alleged suicide? The one where he autopsies an alien immediately before killing himself, that one? ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2019, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/108 "2019-08-12T19:00:12Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > The one where he autopsies an alien immediately before killing himself, that one? … and when there is a close-up of the alien’s face, it looks suspiciously Hillaryan? And then the autopsied alien winks? ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2019, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/109 "2019-08-12T19:20:15Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > 9/11 was convenient for a lot of warmongers. It doesn’t follow that said warmongers blew up the towers. > > I’m not saying that it’s impossible that Epstein was whacked. I’m just saying I’d like to see some evidence. A bunch of people would have to be in on it. Guards would need to be bribed, security measures circumvented. **But so far I’m seeing nothing but people Just Asking Questions.** > > If there’s actually evidence, I’m open minded. But right now suicide seems the most likely explanation. > > \ IMO, there’s a difference between asking legitimate questions that are posed based on facts/actions taken/not taken by involved parties, and JAQ-ing off. To me, JAQ-ing off is the practice of asking questions with little to no basis in reality and with a particular outcome already determined. My questions are not of that sort. If Just Asking Questions means asking _any_ questions, well, that doesn’t seem a terribly productive way to conduct an investigation. Some of the questions I posed do already have answers. For instance, I’ve learned Epstein was already housed in SHU, functionally administrative segregation. I’ve also learned that it is the practice of the Feds to house even ad seg inmates with a cellmate, which is different than the practice within the county where I worked. I don’t think it’s necessary for “a bunch of people” to be in on it. I also don’t think bribery is a requirement. Many who work within the prison systems are of the “just following orders” variety. Not all, but many. They are the sort who don’t question why leadership makes the decisions they do. Reliable orders-followers are known within the chain of command. To clarify, I would be surprised to learn someone else had killed Epstein. I don’t think that’s what happened. I think conditions _may_ have been created to exploit his wish to kill himself, and when presented with the opportunity, he reliably did what was foreseeable. This actually happened to a friend of mine, so I don’t find it outside the realm of likelihood at all. An ugly business to be sure, but not provable in any way that someone else encouraged the predictable outcome. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2019, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/110 "2019-08-12T19:22:25Z")
William Barr is a total douchebag, but even douchebags can tell the truth once in a while. I think the following is true, and certainly more credible than most of the conspiracy theories: U.S. Attorney General William Barr said Monday the Justice Department has already found “serious irregularities” at the Manhattan jail where Jeffrey Epstein was being held, adding that the facility “failed to adequately secure this prisoner.” Barr also issued a stern warning, saying the case was far from over and that anyone who may have conspired with Epstein “should not rest easy.” > **[U.S. attorney general appalled by 'serious irregularities' at Manhattan jail...](https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/epstein-jail-new-york-federal-attorny-gneral-barr-1.5244102)** > > The apparent suicide of Jeffrey Epstein has brought new scrutiny to a federal jail in New York that, despite chronic understaffing, houses some of the highest-security inmates in the country. I’m going to posit that incompetence at the jail is the major factor that allowed this to happen, and apparently it wasn’t the first time. As for others that Epstein might have implicated, that may still happen without his help. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2019, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/111 "2019-08-12T19:35:18Z")
I didn’t read the linked article. (I’m at work.) But if he wants to talk about vague “irregularities” he can fuck himself. He needs to fill in the following blank: The decision to lift the suicide watch was made by (blank). ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2019, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/112 "2019-08-12T19:52:36Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > I didn’t read the linked article. (I’m at work.) But if he wants to talk about vague “irregularities” he can fuck himself. He needs to fill in the following blank: > The decision to lift the suicide watch was made by (blank). You can add: The decision to not move in another prisoner to the cell when his cellmate left. The decision to not do checks every half an hour. Incompetence is when Joe Pervert is left alone and kills himself. Violating all the rules for your most important prisoner goes beyond that. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2019, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/113 "2019-08-12T19:54:00Z")
> [@DaveRaver](#): > > Has anyone seen the closed circuit TV footage of his alleged suicide? His cell was not covered by a camera. There was one covering the hallway, so they can tell exactly how often the guards checked. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2019, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/114 "2019-08-12T19:56:49Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > William Barr is a total douchebag, but even douchebags can tell the truth once in a while. I think the following is true, and certainly more credible than most of the conspiracy theories: > U.S. Attorney General William Barr said Monday the Justice Department has already found “serious irregularities” at the Manhattan jail where Jeffrey Epstein was being held, adding that the facility “failed to adequately secure this prisoner.” > > Barr also issued a stern warning, saying the case was far from over and that anyone who may have conspired with Epstein “should not rest easy.” > [https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/epstein-jail-new-york-federal-attorny-gneral-barr-1.5244102](https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/epstein-jail-new-york-federal-attorny-gneral-barr-1.5244102) > I’m going to posit that incompetence at the jail is the major factor that allowed this to happen, and apparently it wasn’t the first time. As for others that Epstein might have implicated, that may still happen without his help. It may. As for Barr’s “stern warning,” gee, it’s almost like he isn’t in charge of the Bureau of Prisons or something. He probably should have added one more comment to his warning that the case was far from over and that anyone who may have conspired with Epstein “should not rest easy.” One potential co-conspirator can rest easy, so long as Barr is the overseer. Re incompetence, well said, **Voyager**. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2019, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/115 "2019-08-12T20:02:28Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I’m going to posit that incompetence at the jail is the major factor that allowed this to happen, and apparently it wasn’t the first time. Did Barr acknowledge that Epstein had been transferred there at Barr’s orders? > [@wolfpup](#): > > Barr also issued a stern warning, saying the case was far from over and that anyone who may have conspired with Epstein “should not rest easy.” So we should expect more witness suicides. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/116 "2019-08-13T17:28:57Z")
Looks like there will be plenty of evidence against numerous alleged co-conspirators, even without Epstein’s testimony: > **[FBI raids Jeffrey Epstein’s private island in ongoing probe after his death...](https://www.chicagotribune.com/nation-world/ct-nw-jeffrey-epstein-private-island-raid-20190813-c22b2fpvd5es7o7ijgqt3leuwe-story.html)** > > More than a dozen agents of the FBI and NYPD raided Jeffrey Epstein’s private island in the Caribbean. “The raid was a stark reminder that the federal criminal investigation of Epstein’s alleged sex trafficking is not over, despite his Saturday death by apparent suicide in federal custody. New evidence recovered from the island compound could be used to charge others in the still unfolding case or as fodder for a civil forfeiture action aimed at seizing the property to provide restitution to his alleged victims.” ---
**Author:** ![Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mundane_super_hero/32/6304_2.png) [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mundane_Super_Hero)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/117 "2019-08-13T17:38:56Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Jeff is a friend of a friend. Prince Andrew and I go way back to our days flying helicopters in the Falklands. We felt Invincible in those days. > > 😃 > > Maybe in another lifetime. 😉 This needs a group three dog night treatment: Jeffrey was a Pedophile… He was good friend of mine… \< next Doper? \> ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/118 "2019-08-13T17:48:36Z")
> [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](#): > > This needs a group three dog night treatment: > > Jeffrey was a Pedophile… > He was good friend of mine… > \< next Doper? \> Gary Puckett and The Union Gap [doesn’t even need altering.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sr56-wLBEZA) ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/119 "2019-08-13T18:12:24Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > No, the first rule of prison corruption is always collect your bribe in advance. I can’t count how many times I saw guys get burnt when they helped some prisoner escape who promised to send them money after he got home. Really? You know of multiple instances where C/Os helped prisoners escape? In my law enforcement (admittedly not corrections) experience, that is a pretty rare thing. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/120 "2019-08-13T18:21:14Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > Really? You know of multiple instances where C/Os helped prisoners escape? In my law enforcement (admittedly not corrections) experience, that is a pretty rare thing. Seriously? You failed to scan that as humor? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451.md?page=7)