# Epstein Suicide **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 10, 2019, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451 "2019-08-10T13:21:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/121 "2019-08-13T20:11:32Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > Really? You know of multiple instances where C/Os helped prisoners escape? In my law enforcement (admittedly not corrections) experience, that is a pretty rare thing. It’s a pretty rare thing for someone who gets re-captured after the escape to have the C/Os assistance. When the C/Os are bribed and the wheels are greased the getaways are more apt to be clean and the means of escape remains a mystery. If the C/Os do the job properly you won’t know they did anything at all. Like burning down a bar for the insurance. ---
**Author:** ![Walmarticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Walmarticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walmarticus)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/122 "2019-08-14T16:58:39Z")
I’s clear to me that there is some conspiracy here, the dude’s whole life is a dan brown book. But I think all we can ever see are the little flashes of a much bigger story that we can never access. It becomes like a Rorschach test where you fill in the blanks with your political ideology. The world is such a tease now. I cant recall all the times I’ve felt “yes, finally we’re going to get some answers” and then we get shut down. Or we do get answers and absolutepy nothing comes of it and everybody’s fine with that. This Epstein shit will live in the same purgatory in our minds all the mass shootings do- insanely fucked up and crazy shit that never goes anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/123 "2019-08-14T21:58:34Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Personally, I gotta go with the theory that Epstein faked his death, and is now living it up at a secret Trump International Beach Resort in Nicaragua. **The CT that I am about to post is presented solely for its entertainment value and does not reflect even a half-hearted belief in its efficacy.** [ol] [li]The first “suicide attempt” was a botched murder attempt[/li][li]Epstein realizes he’s living on borrowed time[/li][li]The prosecutors, particularly those interested in netting whatever Big Fish they are going after, realize they need to resort to Extraordinary Means to ensure Epstein stays alive long enough to testify[/li][li]With his cooperation, they fake his death. The photo shown upthread is done with a little careful makeup to simulate the appearance of death.[/li][li]Epstein is now in a secure location while the loonies on both sides of the political spectrum spew forth, and more to the point, those with most to lose by Epstein testifying are now lulled into a false sense of security.[/li][/ol] **The preceding CT is made possible by a grant from the Institute of Total Whackadoodles, and Viewers Like You.** ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/124 "2019-08-14T22:38:52Z")
**CaptMurdock** , I could only wish we were that competent. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/125 "2019-08-15T05:25:52Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Is there really anyone (except maybe Epstein himself) who benefits from his death? Consider that his property can be ransacked for anything and everything, which is apparently underway at the hands of the FBI, ATVM. Whatsoever they collect will be immune to any counsels’ motions to suppress. So, who benefits? Let me see, the FBI operates under the auspices of the DoJ. Whoever might be in charge of that department would be able to control what evidence is used to go after people and what evidence is shelved, bricked-in or binned. Or whoever might be in charge of the guy in charge of the DoJ. (Or that person’s handlers.) ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/126 "2019-08-15T13:51:56Z")
**[Autopsy finds broken bones in Epstein’s neck, deepening questions around his death](https://a.msn.com/r/2/AAFPxjP?m=en-us&referrerID=InAppShare)** > [@](#): > > An autopsy found that financier Jeffrey Epstein sustained multiple breaks in his neck bones, according to two people familiar with the findings, deepening the mystery about the circumstances around his death. > > Among the bones broken in Epstein’s neck was the hyoid bone, which in men is near the Adam’s apple. Such breaks can occur in those who hang themselves, particularly if they are older, according to forensics experts and studies on the subject. But they are more common in victims of homicide by strangulation, the experts said. > … > > The office of New York City’s chief medical examiner, Barbara Sampson, completed an autopsy of Epstein’s body Sunday. But Sampson listed the cause of his death as pending. > > Asked about the neck injuries, Sampson said in a statement that no single factor in an autopsy can alone provide a conclusive answer about what happened. > … The plot thickens. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/127 "2019-08-15T14:01:44Z")
Jeffrey was a Pedophile… He was good friend of mine… Until he got himself arrested And looking at hard jail time. Then I did not know him And all his under aged girls. Under aged girls just ain’t my style In fact, I find it kind of vile. I’m the Prez of the USA And I’ll tell you what I do. I want to throw the bombs and start the wars. But under aged girls; that just ain’t cool. Then I did not know him And all his under aged girls. Under aged girls just ain’t my style In fact, I find it kind of vile. You know I love to be Prez. Love to have my fun. I’m a high life flyer but no rainbow rider A straight shootin’ son-of-a-gun I said a straight shootin’ son-of-a-gun Then I did not know him And all his under aged girls. Under aged girls just ain’t my style In fact, I find it kind of vile. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/128 "2019-08-15T14:24:20Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > **[Autopsy finds broken bones in Epstein’s neck, deepening questions around his death](https://a.msn.com/r/2/AAFPxjP?m=en-us&referrerID=InAppShare)** > The plot thickens. The plot thickens? How do you figure? It says right there in the article you quoted: > [@](#): > > Such breaks can occur in those who hang themselves, particularly if they are older, according to forensics experts and studies on the subject. In other words, it’s _not at all remarkable_ that Epstein had broken bones in his neck. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/129 "2019-08-15T14:25:19Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > The plot thickens. Does it? If they can occur in a suicide, especially in older males (of which Epstein was one) then I’d think that, barring additional evidence of foul play, the reasonable conclusion is that they were the result of the suicide. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/130 "2019-08-15T14:56:11Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > The plot thickens? How do you figure? It says right there in the article you quoted: > > In other words, it’s _not at all remarkable_ that Epstein had broken bones in his neck. Also from that article: > [@](#): > > An autopsy found that financier Jeffrey Epstein suffered multiple breaks in his neck bones, according to two people familiar with the findings, **deepening the mystery** about the circumstances around his death. > > Among the bones broken in Epstein’s neck was the hyoid bone, which in men is near the Adam’s apple. Such breaks **can occur** in those who hang themselves, particularly if they are older, according to forensics experts and studies on the subject. But they are **more common** in victims of homicide by strangulation, the experts said. And the autopsy results are still pending. BTW, my personal opinion is that it was suicide. But I’m not above promoting a good rumor. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/131 "2019-08-15T14:56:36Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > **CaptMurdock** , I could only wish we were that competent. The Elephant In The Room of _any_ conspiracy theory of the last sixty years. > [@Jophiel](#): > > Does it? If they can occur in a suicide, especially in older males (of which Epstein was one) then I’d think that, barring additional evidence of foul play, the reasonable conclusion is that they were the result of the suicide. The questions that the article did _not_ answer: [ol] [li]Was a tox screen performed? If so, did it detect the prescence of soporifics or other drugs in this system?[/li][li]Did they find bruising around his head and neck, indicative of a disabling blow?[/li][/ol] Not ruling out a genuine suicide here, Inspector. Just asking… ---
**Author:** ![Tigers2B1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc29f/32.png) [@Tigers2B1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tigers2B1)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/132 "2019-08-15T15:15:23Z")
Using the largest study of a little less than 300 suicides by hanging only 6% of those had their hyoid bone broken. 75% of those determined to be homicides by strangulation had the hyoid bone broken. As I recall they mentioned weight, force of the fall, and age as variables. Does anyone know how these numbers might change based on those 3 variables? ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/133 "2019-08-15T16:56:16Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Also from that article: The following is a statement of fact from the article: > [@the article you quoted from](#): > > Such breaks can occur in those who hang themselves, particularly if they are older, according to forensics experts and studies on the subject. The following is an editorial statement from the article: > [@the article you quoted from](#): > > …deepening the mystery about the circumstances around his death. WTF does that even mean? If it’s not inconsistent with an old man hanging himself, and it’s not inconsistent with homicide, then a finding of broken bones does not clarify or obfuscate the manner of his death at all; the depth of mystery (and the thickness of the plot) regarding the circumstances of his death is _exactly the same_ as it was before anyone discovered that he had broken bones in his neck. > [@ThelmaLou](#): > > But I’m not above promoting a good rumor. Are you aware of the nature of this website? Please, stop promoting rumors. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/134 "2019-08-15T17:27:34Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > … > Are you aware of the nature of this website? Gee, after 16,000+ posts, I don’t have a clue. :dubious: Suppose you edumacate me. > [@](#): > > Please, stop promoting rumors. MSN did it first. I didn’t make it up. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/135 "2019-08-15T23:14:12Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > \ > > WTF does that even mean? If it’s not inconsistent with an old man hanging himself, and it’s not inconsistent with homicide, then a finding of broken bones does not clarify or obfuscate the manner of his death at all; the depth of mystery (and the thickness of the plot) regarding the circumstances of his death is _exactly the same_ as it was before anyone discovered that he had broken bones in his neck. > > Are you aware of the nature of this website? Please, stop promoting rumors. I don’t understand your need to take such a withering tone. At present, according to the medical examiner, the cause of death is undetermined. If sufficient evidence existed today to rule it a suicide, the medical examiner would have done so. Apart from Bill Barr’s words telling you so, what actual evidence do you have at this point that Epstein committed suicide? You think people never fake suicides in order to get away with murder? Do you think there might be an additional impetus for someone to engineer such an outcome if they stood to lose everything they have if certain information were to be revealed by Epstein? Do you understand that by arguing so hotly in favor of a suicide ruling, you’re literally taking Bill Barr’s word for it, even ahead of the medical examiner’s autopsy results? Me, I don’t trust him at all. Worth noting he sure was quick to tell you what to think, though. Epstein probably did commit suicide. He may have been aided by persons creating conditions that would allow and encourage him in that direction. Pretty convenient if you want to off someone and you can get them to do your dirty work for you. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/136 "2019-08-16T00:27:24Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I don’t understand your need to take such a withering tone. At present, according to the medical examiner, the cause of death is undetermined. If sufficient evidence existed today to rule it a suicide, the medical examiner would have done so. > > Epstein probably did commit suicide. He may have been aided by persons creating conditions that would allow and encourage him in that direction. Pretty convenient if you want to off someone and you can get them to do your dirty work for you. You’re trying to have it both ways here. You’re implying that he had help committing suicide, but you’re also implying that the medical evidence is insufficiency don’t to determine that it was suicide. I’m not going to dignify unsubstantiated assertions that “the official story” must be untrue because you dislike the AG - that’s the same path that lead too many people into trutherism during the Bush years. The facts are that Epstein attempted suicide once already and had ample time to attempt it again. In the absence of any hard evidence to the contrary, this is much more likely than the idea that the prison warden, most of the staff, and the Department of Justice were involved in a massive plot to let someone sneak into his cell and throttle him - an act which is not an easy way to kill someone. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/137 "2019-08-16T00:47:45Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You’re trying to have it both ways here. You’re implying that he had help committing suicide, but you’re also implying that the medical evidence is insufficiency don’t to determine that it was suicide. > > I’m not going to dignify unsubstantiated assertions that “the official story” must be untrue because you dislike the AG - that’s the same path that lead too many people into trutherism during the Bush years. > > The facts are that Epstein attempted suicide once already and had ample time to attempt it again. In the absence of any hard evidence to the contrary, this is much more likely than the idea that the prison warden, most of the staff, and the Department of Justice were involved in a massive plot to let someone sneak into his cell and throttle him - an act which is not an easy way to kill someone. Trust me. You haven’t dignified anything. All I said was that the manner of death is at present undetermined. You’re putting words in my mouth to assert I’ve said anything else. I have simply chosen to not blindly accept the representations of a man who has lied to us about pretty important stuff in the past. We don’t even know that Epstein attempted suicide once already. I’ve heard conflicting reports about it, indicating he 1) either attempted suicide or 2) was attacked. If he attempted suicide once already, why was he given ample time to attempt it again? Why was he left alone in his cell, when it was contrary to their own protocol? You said lots of people have to be “in on” such a plan. I don’t think that the “prison warden, most of the staff and the Department of Justice” must be involved. You’ve thrown all those folks in there to make it look like exploring other scenarios is wacky. The prison warden is very inexperienced. He may not even have realized if he was given an order that is contrary to protocol. “Most of the staff”? Who, besides the one person who killed him? And why does it have to be a prison guard? You don’t think there are inmates who wouldn’t be pleased to kill him for nothing if they were given the chance? As for the whole Department of Justice… really? How about just one person who runs the whole institution, knows what may be at risk and to whom, and has the power to manipulate the system in such a way as to create favorable conditions? There’s no need for a big plot. Just a small one with a foreseeable outcome. That’s why I said he probably did commit suicide. But it’s not a certainty at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/138 "2019-08-16T01:19:38Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#): > > **The CT that I am about to post is presented solely for its entertainment value and does not reflect even a half-hearted belief in its efficacy.** > > [ol] > [li]The first “suicide attempt” was a botched murder attempt[/li][li]Epstein realizes he’s living on borrowed time[/li][li]The prosecutors, particularly those interested in netting whatever Big Fish they are going after, realize they need to resort to Extraordinary Means to ensure Epstein stays alive long enough to testify[/li][li]With his cooperation, they fake his death. The photo shown upthread is done with a little careful makeup to simulate the appearance of death.[/li][li]Epstein is now in a secure location while the loonies on both sides of the political spectrum spew forth, and more to the point, those with most to lose by Epstein testifying are now lulled into a false sense of security.[/li][/ol] > > **The preceding CT is made possible by a grant from the Institute of Total Whackadoodles, and Viewers Like You.** Challenge accepted. Aliens from the future time traveled back to Roswell, New Mexico in 1947. The military captured their time machine and kept it hidden in a secret bunker. Bill Clinton seized control of the time machine by executive order when he became President. He then had Vince Foster, Seth Rich, and Ron Brown time travel to 2019 where they abducted Jeffrey Epstein. They brought Epstein back to 2001, placed him inside the World Trade Center, and staged a terrorist attack to kill Epstein. A cell from Epstein’s body was then used to clone a duplicate corpse, which was returned to his cell in 2019 to make it look like he had committed suicide. Clinton then arranged to have Forster, Rich, and Brown killed in order to keep this all secret. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/139 "2019-08-16T01:25:03Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The facts are that Epstein attempted suicide once already and had ample time to attempt it again. In the absence of any hard evidence to the contrary, this is much more likely than the idea that the prison warden, most of the staff, and the Department of Justice were involved in a massive plot to let someone sneak into his cell and throttle him - an act which is not an easy way to kill someone. If the theory that Epstein was murdered is so crazy, why is the President of the United States saying it happened? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451/140 "2019-08-16T02:04:49Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > If the theory that Epstein was murdered is so crazy, why is the President of the United States saying it happened? This president says crazy things all the time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/epstein-suicide/838451.md?page=8)