# Equal pay for men and women in sports. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 7, 2016, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/equal-pay-for-men-and-women-in-sports/754176 "2016-05-07T16:10:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2016, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/equal-pay-for-men-and-women-in-sports/754176/21 "2016-05-07T18:58:58Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > Not according to this: > > [Link](http://www.inc.com/jeff-haden/clearly-women-do-not-deserve-equal-pay-the-u-s-women-s-soccer-team-wage-discrimi.html) Yes, if you compare a WC year for the women with an off year for the men, the women have a higher revenue. That is completely disingenuous though. If you compare a 4-year cycle then the women bring in much much less money. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2016, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/equal-pay-for-men-and-women-in-sports/754176/22 "2016-05-07T19:02:01Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > Not according to this: > > [Link](http://www.inc.com/jeff-haden/clearly-women-do-not-deserve-equal-pay-the-u-s-women-s-soccer-team-wage-discrimi.html) The Men’s World Cup was 2014. The Women’s World Cup was 2015. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2016, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/equal-pay-for-men-and-women-in-sports/754176/23 "2016-05-07T19:58:11Z")
The women soccer players should go on strike if they think they’re being unfairly treated. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2016, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/equal-pay-for-men-and-women-in-sports/754176/24 "2016-05-07T20:29:31Z")
This is where left-wing thinking just goes off the rails. The hiring manager is not smoking a fat cigar saying, “Ha, we can pay these stupid broads pennies compared to the men!” The pay is not less because of gender, but because of the value the employee/player brings to the owners. I’ve said before that I would love to be in a position to pay an employee $1 million per year. That means I am making a hell of a lot more. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2016, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/equal-pay-for-men-and-women-in-sports/754176/25 "2016-05-07T20:46:50Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Yes, if you compare a WC year for the women with an off year for the men, the women have a higher revenue. That is completely disingenuous though. If you compare a 4-year cycle then the women bring in much much less money. Yes, that article that **Grrr!** linked to is a perfect example of how to be misleading. Unfortunately there’s no shortage of people ready to fall for that kind of thing. In addition to going on strike, the female soccer players have the option of moving to another country and selling their soccer-playing services there. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2016, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/equal-pay-for-men-and-women-in-sports/754176/26 "2016-05-07T21:04:06Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > In addition to going on strike, the female soccer players have the option of moving to another country and selling their soccer-playing services there. But that is not really a feasible option for most people. However, it got me thinking, is there any competition in the women’s soccer market? If I am a baseball player and I don’t like what the Pirates are paying me, I can shop the other teams. What can these soccer players do? (Again, except uprooting your entire life and moving to a foreign country) ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2016, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/equal-pay-for-men-and-women-in-sports/754176/27 "2016-05-07T21:20:26Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > But that is not really a feasible option for most people. However, it got me thinking, is there any competition in the women’s soccer market? If I am a baseball player and I don’t like what the Pirates are paying me, I can shop the other teams. > > What can these soccer players do? (Again, except uprooting your entire life and moving to a foreign country) That’s the same thing. Players choosing to seek stronger markets for their talents. Many of the best American women basketball players do indeed relocate temporarily to other countries, where women’s basketball pays more. For that matter, the best Venezuelan baseball players come to the US. What’s the difference? ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2016, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/equal-pay-for-men-and-women-in-sports/754176/28 "2016-05-07T22:29:40Z")
This controversy is about national team pay. They cannot go play for another national team. They could go play for another club team in a different country, but there really isn’t a market for it. There’s not really a market for it in the US either, women that don’t have their pay subsidized by USSF make something like $15,000 a year. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2016, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/equal-pay-for-men-and-women-in-sports/754176/29 "2016-05-07T23:37:16Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > This controversy is about national team pay. They cannot go play for another national team. I was addressing **UltraVires** ’ “it got me thinking” thought. I’m not sure that national team players, as such, should be _paid_ at all (covering expenses would be another matter)… but if they are, certainly it should be on an egalitarian basis. Their service, in this specific context, is in representing the country, not putting asses in the seats. We don’t prorate Olympic medallist prize money according to the commercial heft of their sport outside the Olympics, nor the attendance at their Olympic events, right? Revenue has nothing to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2016, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/equal-pay-for-men-and-women-in-sports/754176/30 "2016-05-07T23:53:44Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > I was addressing **UltraVires** ’ “it got me thinking” thought. I’m aware. I was responding to that; these women can’t seek a better country to play for. You play for the country you’re a citizen of. I guess if they really wanted to they could go live in France for 8 years or whatever, but that seems unrealistic > [@](#): > > I’m not sure that national team players, as such, should be _paid_ at all (covering expenses would be another matter)… but if they are, certainly it should be on an egalitarian basis. Their service, in this specific context, is in representing the country, not putting asses in the seats. We don’t prorate Olympic medallist prize money according to the commercial heft of their sport outside the Olympics, nor the attendance at their Olympic events, right? Revenue has nothing to do with it. This strikes me as very old-fashioned. Leaving aside the great financial risk these people put themselves into that they should be compensated for, and the billions of dollars of profit that they create that they should be compensated for, revenue has everything to do with it. Soccer teams play a lot of “friendlies” that are absolutely to make money for the federation. There are tons of games that aren’t played for a competition or to prepare for one that are just for money making. You’d be asking players to volunteer to make other people rich without any pride or glory in it. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/equal-pay-for-men-and-women-in-sports/754176/31 "2016-05-08T00:38:36Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > I’m aware. I was responding to that; these women can’t seek a better country to play for. You play for the country you’re a citizen of. Uh… I know? The remarks about relocation had nothing whatever to do with national teams. > [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Soccer teams play a lot of “friendlies” that are absolutely to make money for the federation. There are tons of games that aren’t played for a competition or to prepare for one that are just for money making. You’d be asking players to volunteer to make other people rich without any pride or glory in it. Is not being selected to a national team a point of pride itself? Is there no glory in having a part in a victory in your country’s kit? (I expect it’s not bad for one’s club-contract and endorsement prospects either.) I’m also unclear on how playing time in a national-team format could fail to be preparation for the tournaments, but then I am a casual soccer fan at best. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/equal-pay-for-men-and-women-in-sports/754176/32 "2016-05-08T01:59:28Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Uh… I know? The remarks about relocation had nothing whatever to do with national teams. This entire discussion is about pay for the national teams. > [@](#): > > Is not being selected to a national team a point of pride itself? Is there no glory in having a part in a victory in your country’s kit? (I expect it’s not bad for one’s club-contract and endorsement prospects either.) > > I’m also unclear on how playing time in a national-team format could fail to be preparation for the tournaments, but then I am a casual soccer fan at best. How does a game 2 years before a tournament with a completely different roster of player prepare for a tournament? ---
**Author:** ![Ibanez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a4c791/32.png) [@Ibanez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibanez)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/equal-pay-for-men-and-women-in-sports/754176/33 "2016-05-08T13:51:59Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > I just saw a 15 minute video by\*\* Sargon of Akkad \*\*about female Football/(soccer) players suing to get paid as much as men do, and I couldn’t disagree with him more. > > …Though I have NO idea how it,\*\* (women getting paid as much as men in sports,) would be implemented, I’m not interested in sports. I doubt it will ever happen because it doesn’t seem feasible. > > There are times when I don’t agree with what’s claimed to be “unequal”, but women put in just as much as men. So… it seems to me to be inequality. Men’s football brings in more money than women’s football = Men get paid more. It’s sports, entertainment, not a government run department. [MMA Rhonda Rousey Explains It](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLrNBmXhr1M) ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/equal-pay-for-men-and-women-in-sports/754176/34 "2016-05-08T15:18:48Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > That’s the same thing. Players choosing to seek stronger markets for their talents. > > Many of the best American women basketball players do indeed relocate temporarily to other countries, where women’s basketball pays more. > > For that matter, the best Venezuelan baseball players come to the US. What’s the difference? I agree, but that isn’t the best type of free market competition. If I repair copiers, and Toshiba isn’t paying me enough, I am free to entertain offers from Xerox across town. I can do that by still living in my same house, same friends, same country of citizenship. I am also free to move to a different state, but I still have American TV, restaurants, culture, etc. Changing citizenship seems a high price to pay and acts as a barrier to competition. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/equal-pay-for-men-and-women-in-sports/754176/35 "2016-05-09T14:01:09Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I agree, but that isn’t the best type of free market competition. If I repair copiers, and Toshiba isn’t paying me enough, I am free to entertain offers from Xerox across town. I can do that by still living in my same house, same friends, same country of citizenship. > > I am also free to move to a different state, but I still have American TV, restaurants, culture, etc. Changing citizenship seems a high price to pay and acts as a barrier to competition. If the men choose not to play for the US team they can play professional soccer in many countries around the world and make millions of dollars. If the women choose not to play for the national team they can play for the Pro league in the US and make tens of thousands of dollars. Given that leverage and the fact that winning one more game in the world cup can mean millions to US soccer it is not surprising that men get payed more. In terms of equity and justice the men’t team players are in the top couple hundred players in the world. There isn’t one women who is in the top five thousand players in the world. Yet some people think that paying them equally is necessary for fairness. That does not seem fair to me. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/equal-pay-for-men-and-women-in-sports/754176/36 "2016-05-09T15:35:38Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The US women’s World Cup team has been way, way more successful, and their latest World Cup victory match got higher TV ratings in the US than any game from the US men’s team ever… and the women players get only about 1/4th of the pay. That does seem like total bullshit inequality, and at least in this case, the women should get paid as much as the men’s players. World Cup income the US Federation receives comes from the global revenue generated by each tournament _not_ US viewership alone. The US men’s team will be benefiting from the fanaticism of many hundreds millions of fans worldwide watching Germany tear Brazil apart in a WC semi final. A game watched with almost as much interest in Italy, Japan and Russia as it was in Germany and Brazil. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/equal-pay-for-men-and-women-in-sports/754176/37 "2016-05-09T17:59:31Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > What don’t you understand? They’re paid to fill seats. They are in the sports/entertainment industry. Seriously, what about this is confusing? The fact that they are representing our nation, this is not a strictly commercial endeavor. > [@](#): > > The video goes over the numbers involved so saying it’s not worth watching is about as disingenuous as it gets. 3.2 billion viewers for men’s soccer versus 750 million for women’s. So do we pay Olympic athletes based on viewership as well or are the Olympics run at cost by the networks? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/equal-pay-for-men-and-women-in-sports/754176/38 "2016-05-09T18:00:47Z")
> [@Tithonus](#): > > I watched the video. It made perfect sense to me. > > Maybe I’m misunderstanding the video, but I can’t see how you came to that conclusion. Nobody outside of America is watching the world cup to watch the men’s US team play. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/equal-pay-for-men-and-women-in-sports/754176/39 "2016-05-09T18:04:43Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > This is where left-wing thinking just goes off the rails. The hiring manager is not smoking a fat cigar saying, “Ha, we can pay these stupid broads pennies compared to the men!” The pay is not less because of gender, but because of the value the employee/player brings to the owners. Wait. Someone OWNS the US national soccer teams? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/equal-pay-for-men-and-women-in-sports/754176/40 "2016-05-09T18:07:13Z")
> [@Ibanez](#): > > Men’s football brings in more money than women’s football = Men get paid more. > > It’s sports, entertainment, not a government run department. > > [MMA Rhonda Rousey Explains It](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLrNBmXhr1M) So who owns the US soccer teams? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/equal-pay-for-men-and-women-in-sports/754176.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/equal-pay-for-men-and-women-in-sports/754176.md?page=3)