# Equality of opportunity does not lead to equality of results **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 19, 2019, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/equality-of-opportunity-does-not-lead-to-equality-of-results/845088 "2019-12-19T15:59:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/equality-of-opportunity-does-not-lead-to-equality-of-results/845088/81 "2019-12-20T03:16:20Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Well, that’s probably the worst example to use because discrimination is probably a much larger factor in explaining the disparity there than between any two other groups. I think it’s the best example. A discussion about race should start with the two largest racial groups in the country. And if we’re doing more than just talking, I feel that any efforts to combat racism should be directed first at the biggest problem. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/equality-of-opportunity-does-not-lead-to-equality-of-results/845088/82 "2019-12-20T03:22:35Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Assuming you consider “culture” to be an inherent trait… > Let me ask you what “outside” factor you think might be causing the poorest racial group in NYC to significantly outperform the richest racial group in NYC? Is it possible to have a discussion about black Americans on this board without you trying to sidetrack the conversation into a discussion of Asian-Americans? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/equality-of-opportunity-does-not-lead-to-equality-of-results/845088/83 "2019-12-20T04:08:18Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > All Asians are certainly not privileged and wealthy - but according to [this](https://www1.nyc.gov/site/opportunity/news/004/some-good-news-asian-american-poverty-new-york-city), they were not the poorest ethnic group in NYC as of 2015. OK so asians were the second poorest group in NYC that year. What’s your point? They were still less affluent than whites and they still managed to outperform them academically, and not just on the stuyvesant exam. They outperformed whites in all the standardized tests given to students through the school year. And noone is prepping for those tests because they are an assessment of the school not the student. They are irrelevant to the student once they have entered the GT program > [@](#): > > Additionally, the poverty rate differs between countries of origin, between citizens and non-citizens and so on. It is entirely possible that the 73%\* of students at Stuyvesant who are of Asian descent are mostly second-generation Chinese or Korean students from middle-class and up families\*\* that could afford private education until 8th grade and/or tutoring. Asians attending stuy are generally less affluent than the general population. The free and reduced lunch stats support this. Particularly the ones that barely get in (we know this due to the discovery program. > [@](#): > > It’s even possible that the Black/Hispanic/White peers of these students mostly attend private high schools and if those students chose to attend the specialized high schools, the percentage of Asian students would be lower. Now, I don’t know if those things are true, but the fact that they are possible are reasons why saying that the ethnic group with the highest poverty rate has the highest academic achievement \*\*\* doesn’t really say anything. Some of the black/hispanic peers are definitely attending private schools. Schools like Dalton were almost entirely white when I was a kid. Now it is 10% black with about 150 black students. Most of the private schools in NYC have all adopted a diversity policy and have significantly more black and hispanic students than when i was a kid. What makes you think that affluent whites attend private schools but affluent asians would not? I don’t think rich families of any race generally send their kids to stuy. There are at least 10 private schools that have better college placement records than stuyvesant. Stuyvesant is merely the best free high school in NYC. > [@](#): > > - There are about 3300 students so about 2400 are Asian. > > \*\* and there is no reliable way to tell how poor the students are - with a neighborhood school, you can at least assume the demographics are similar to the neighborhood. People have lied on free lunch forms ( since no proof was required ) since I went to high school 40 years ago, so that wouldn’t be an accurate measure- and even if it was, NYC now provides lunch to every student. > > \*\*\*as defined by getting admitted into one of a few high schools that base admission on a single test. If you won’t accept the free and reduced lunch eligibility, then what would you accept? Do I have to get their parents’ tax returns? ---
**Author:** ![Delayed\_Reflex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/delayed_reflex/32/3172_2.png) [@Delayed\_Reflex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Delayed_Reflex)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/equality-of-opportunity-does-not-lead-to-equality-of-results/845088/84 "2019-12-20T04:09:36Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > This is really really important: the average African American doesn’t grow up in the projects. The fact that you think so, that that is the common impression of what “black culture” is, is really the whole issue in a nutshell. You can’t use someone’s race to generalize about their culture. And we don’t usually use race to generalize about white people–we understand that a kid raised in rural Kansas with parents that work at a grain processing plant is going to have a different culture a kid who lives in San Francisco whose parents work in IT. But that makes sense to us because white is “neutral” and culture comes from something else. For the record, I don’t believe that the average African American grows up in the projects, my sentence was referring to a typical person growing up in the projects, not that people growing up in the projects represents the average African American. Sorry if my wording was unclear. Again, you misunderstand me if you think I think there such such a thing as “black culture” any more than that I believe black people are all of the same socio-economic class. I believe black culture spans a range as diverse as any other race. > [@](#): > > Yes, we can talk about the impact of different types of culture on achievement, but culture doesn’t map to race any more that genes map to race. It’s vastly more nuanced and complicated than that. And as I said, income doesn’t map to race any better than culture maps to race. So my point is that culture is important, like income, and while it doesn’t correlate perfectly with race, there are differences in proportions within races that could inform meaningful dialogue. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/equality-of-opportunity-does-not-lead-to-equality-of-results/845088/85 "2019-12-20T04:18:37Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Yes, black children with highly ambitious parents often achieve at a very high rate. Of course they do. And I agree that being an immigrant can have a tremendous impact, just because of the guilt and the pressure. That’s not a matter of culture, it’s a matter of circumstance. Having a younger sibling die of cancer is a great motivator to be a doctor, but that’s not cultural. > > But the cultural variation I am talking about is way, way more nuanced than you seem to recognize. Money and education play a huge role–as does the specific community someone lives in. You can’t say “Korean culture in America is like this”. An undocumented Korean kid whose mom supports the family by cutting hair in her kitchen has a very different culture than the child of a Korean doctor. That poor Korean hair dresser is likely to share some cultural values with the Korean doctor. Rich or poor, the emphasis on education is pretty universal among most families from korea. That’s cultural. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/equality-of-opportunity-does-not-lead-to-equality-of-results/845088/86 "2019-12-20T04:21:12Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Can you provide a cite for the bolded part? Your previous cite did not show that. In what way do you think poor asians might have more opportunity than rich whites? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/equality-of-opportunity-does-not-lead-to-equality-of-results/845088/87 "2019-12-20T04:23:54Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Is it possible to have a discussion about black Americans on this board without you trying to sidetrack the conversation into a discussion of Asian-Americans? This thread is not about black americans. Why are you so uncomfortable talking about asian americans? ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/equality-of-opportunity-does-not-lead-to-equality-of-results/845088/88 "2019-12-20T11:40:16Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > In what way do you think poor asians might have more opportunity than rich whites? I don’t think they do. I want a cite for your claim that poor Asians are outperforming rich whites. Attendance at Stuyvesant High School isn’t the only measure of performance – are poor Asians getting into better colleges than rich whites? Maybe the local schools for the rich white kids are good enough that they don’t need to go to Stuyvesant. I was a smart high school kid and I didn’t bother applying to Stuyvesant because the commute from Queens would be awful, and I didn’t need to because my school was good enough. Maybe rich whites are going to elite private schools and boarding schools. In your argument with someone else above, you seem to switch from poor Asians to middle class Asians and you’re limiting your example to that one high school. To me, this is evidence of almost nothing. So, anyway, please cite that poor Asians are outperforming rich white kids. Your argument is all over the place – you cite an article that specifically warns against grouping all Asians together, because there is tons of diversity of opportunity just among the Asian population. It warns against exactly what you’re doing – claiming that Asians are doing just fine as some sort of special minority, when there are plenty of poor Asians in need who aren’t getting any help. Then you switch from poor to middle class Asians when discussing Stuyvesant attendance, and you restrict your measure of performance to attendance at that high school. Rich kids don’t have to go to Stuyvesant – it attracts middle and lower income kids specifically because it’s free and excellent. Anyway, if the OP doesn’t come back and clarify, I’m out. I’m not really interested in this kind of argument by attrition. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/equality-of-opportunity-does-not-lead-to-equality-of-results/845088/89 "2019-12-20T11:42:19Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Aside from the following the rest were just “how to help poor people” suggestions > > Yes, blacks are more likely to be victims of police brutality than whites. This needs to stop. So what law were you proposing again? > > Busing is a good way to get Trump a third term. Come up with an idea that won’t turn the white house permanently red. > > I don’t know enough about this but maybe we should put the black kids in ESL so they can all learn to speak english in a manner that will set them up for success later in life… like we do with the asian immigrant kids? > > What law are you suggesting here? I’m not really interested in debating these specific possibilities with you – that you agree that at least some of them might improve opportunities for poor black Americans shows that our disagreements are much more about the specifics than the broad strokes of the issue. We both agree that there’s significant discrimination and lack of opportunity facing poor black folks – you just appear to want to focus on culture, and I’m more interested in public policy. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/equality-of-opportunity-does-not-lead-to-equality-of-results/845088/90 "2019-12-20T13:34:33Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > This thread is not about black americans. Why are you so uncomfortable talking about asian americans? Seems like you only want to talk about Asian Americans and New York schools. That’s a microscopic portion of the issue of fair treatment of all Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/equality-of-opportunity-does-not-lead-to-equality-of-results/845088/91 "2019-12-20T13:55:03Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Equalizing schools – which may require busing. Busing actually worked – poor black students’ test scores and achievement went way, way up. Do you have a cite for this specific claim? Namely, that the test scores for the poor black students who were bused went way, way up. In which cities did this happen, how much is “way, way”, and did the parents of the poor students consider that the increase was worth it? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/equality-of-opportunity-does-not-lead-to-equality-of-results/845088/92 "2019-12-20T14:17:50Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Do you have a cite for this specific claim? Namely, that the test scores for the poor black students who were bused went way, way up. In which cities did this happen, how much is “way, way”, and did the parents of the poor students consider that the increase was worth it? > > Regards, > Shodan > **[Did busing for school integration succeed? Here’s what research says.](https://www.chalkbeat.org/2019/7/1/21121022/did-busing-for-school-desegregation-succeed-here-s-what-research-says/)** > > The bottom line: Even if busing for school integration was a political failure, it wasn't an educational failure. > [@](#): > > going to integrated schools for an additional five years caused high school graduation rates to jump by nearly 15 percentage points and reduced the likelihood of living in poverty by 11 percentage points… > > …A study focusing on Louisiana between 1965 and 1970 found that integration dramatically boosted black students’ chances of graduating high school… > > …black and Hispanic students who participated in a Bay Area integration program had higher test scores and college attendance rates… > > …low-income students who attended affluent schools did better on state tests as a result… > > …The children of those who attended integrated schools had higher test scores and were more likely to attend college, too. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/equality-of-opportunity-does-not-lead-to-equality-of-results/845088/93 "2019-12-20T14:19:53Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Oh, well then I’m okay with that. I’m not the spokesman for the liberal position but, speaking for myself, I believe that there’s no inherent racial connection to merit. I don’t believe that any racial group is inherently better or worse on average than any other racial group. So if one racial group is achieving significantly more or less than the average, I think the answer is outside factors affecting that group rather than inherent traits within the group. What outside factors? That sounds an awful lot like, we didn’t get the results we wanted with that policy … so RACISM! Now of course you didn’t come right out and say that but please specify what other factors do you fault for equality of outcomes not reached that don’t involve culture or the person or groups choices. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/equality-of-opportunity-does-not-lead-to-equality-of-results/845088/94 "2019-12-20T14:36:18Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > I consider myself a liberal, and if other liberals disagree with me I would be happy to hear from them as well. I think you’re missing and in fact seem to be actively dismissing the main issue. Culture does make a difference and I believe is THE biggest issue. But that IS an opportunity that needs equalizing. Having parents that value education is way more important than having parents that are rich or geniuses. Dismissing culture as somehow being apart from opportunity fails at the most basic level. Coming from a good culture that values education is not only part of opportunity, it’s the most important factor. > > ETA. And as mentioned upthread the wealthiest families probably have a culture of relying on their money and connections and caring less about education. Man, I agree with you. Now for the million dollar question. What specific policies would you craft that allow for the disparity to change in regards to changing a groups culture? We don’t dismiss culture, we wallow in it. But you can’t fix people who don’t want to fix themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/equality-of-opportunity-does-not-lead-to-equality-of-results/845088/95 "2019-12-20T14:40:07Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > Of course I think that. The way to do so, however, is by changing those cultures so that they do value education. Are you saying that those cultures where parents are less likely to value education should continue to place a low value on education? No, they shouldn’t, but they have, and they still do and likely will in the future. I imagine that over a very lengthy time period, it will slowly, gradually change, with no governmental intervention AT ALL. I don’t know how to go about changing a culture, especially when you have the other side crying foul over the very thought of the attempt to change it. In fact, I don’t see how any government intervention will speed it up. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/equality-of-opportunity-does-not-lead-to-equality-of-results/845088/96 "2019-12-20T14:42:50Z")
Throughout history, the wealthy “haves” always blamed the “have-nots” for their own plight, broadly speaking, using things like “culture” as excuses. This was always bullshit. It was always unbalanced and unfair systems. We can look at any class or ethnic conflict – it was never the culture of the out-group to blame. Communism was the wrong move for Tsarist Russia, but Tsarist Russia really was a rotten, unfair system that prevented most Russians at the time from having a decent chance at a comfortable life, not the culture of the masses. We’re not suddenly in some unique situation in which _finally_ the culture of the out-group is really the problem. It’s still the system, when we’re talking about big groups of millions of people. Human beings are human beings, regardless of culture. Most humans just want decent, peaceful lives, no matter their culture. When huge swaths of a group doesn’t have this chance, it’s because the systems are failing them. Not because they’re all failing themselves. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/equality-of-opportunity-does-not-lead-to-equality-of-results/845088/97 "2019-12-20T15:15:52Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > > [@naita](#): > > > > so an unequal outcome on group level, means equal opportunity hasn’t been achieved. > > And another person who believes that we don’t have equality of opportunity until we have equality of outcome > > Maybe this sentiment isn’t as rare as you guys think (especially when some of you are the same ones holding this view). Nice editing there. > [@naita](#): > > Someone saying equal outcome means we haven’t achieved equal opportunity is extremely unlikely to mean we don’t have equal opportunity until every person becomes a doctor. They’re saying they believe the factors you mention aren’t correlated with e.g. ethnicity, so an unequal outcome on group level, means equal opportunity hasn’t been achieved. > > I’m sure you’d be able to find someone somewhere who wants people to wear weighted pants and blurry glasses to make everyone absolutely equal, but that doesn’t mean it’s a sensible thing to discuss. But by all means, if you want to spend your Holiday building strawmen with Velocity, go right ahead. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/equality-of-opportunity-does-not-lead-to-equality-of-results/845088/98 "2019-12-20T16:02:51Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Throughout history, the wealthy “haves” always blamed the “have-nots” for their own plight, broadly speaking, using things like “culture” as excuses. This was always bullshit. It was always unbalanced and unfair systems. We can look at any class or ethnic conflict – it was never the culture of the out-group to blame. Communism was the wrong move for Tsarist Russia, but Tsarist Russia really was a rotten, unfair system that prevented most Russians at the time from having a decent chance at a comfortable life, not the culture of the masses. > > We’re not suddenly in some unique situation in which _finally_ the culture of the out-group is really the problem. It’s still the system, when we’re talking about big groups of millions of people. Human beings are human beings, regardless of culture. Most humans just want decent, peaceful lives, no matter their culture. When huge swaths of a group doesn’t have this chance, it’s because the systems are failing them. Not because they’re all failing themselves. Putting it only on “systems” is also an oversimplification though. Systems are problematic, but there is still a wide spectrum of motivation/talent/energy/DNA traits in any given populace. This debate, like many others, centers mainly on a conservative tendency to attribute success/failure to traits that are internal and liberal tendency to attribute success/failure to circumstances that are external. Both tend to overlook the other. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/equality-of-opportunity-does-not-lead-to-equality-of-results/845088/99 "2019-12-20T16:13:21Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Putting it only on “systems” is also an oversimplification though. Systems are problematic, but there is still a wide spectrum of motivation/talent/energy/DNA traits in any given populace. > > This debate, like many others, centers mainly on a conservative tendency to attribute success/failure to traits that are internal and liberal tendency to attribute success/failure to circumstances that are external. Both tend to overlook the other. I don’t have any problem with looking at “internal traits” when analyzing individual performance. But it’s bullshit to do so when we’re looking at groups of millions. When we’re talking about groups of millions, especially when they’re categorized by superficial characteristics like race or ethnicity, “internal traits” will average out, for characteristics that aren’t superficial. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/equality-of-opportunity-does-not-lead-to-equality-of-results/845088/100 "2019-12-20T17:23:29Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > It feels like we have had this discussion before. > > Nonetheless, it is a question that lends itself to analysis. > > Now, we know that single parents, mostly mothers, and their children are disproportionately likely to be in poverty. And likewise that the children of single mothers are disproportionately subject to the various social ills you describe - poorer educational outcomes, higher rates of crime, unemployment, etc. The interesting thing is that this is the case for black and white single mothers alike - both suffer from higher rates of these social ills, for themselves and their children. So now we examine the groups of “black Americans in general” and “white Americans in general” and see if, for instance, there is a difference in incidence of single parenting, mostly mothers. > > If one group experiences single parenthood at 40%, and the other at 73%, one would predict that the group at 73% would be disproportionately suffering from the various social ills. And sure enough, that’s what we see. No inherent factors needed. > > Regards, > Shodan To play a bit of a devil’s advocate, I think the idea is that if you had equality of opportunity then you wouldn’t have such an elevated illegitimate birth rate in the second group so everything should sort itself out unless one is contending that the second group has such an innate characteristic as to have these increased birth rates regardless of opportunity. Of course, it could be argued that some on the left who discard traditional notions of morality and claim that there is nothing wrong with having children outside of marriage are contributing to illegitimacy, with equality of opportunity, this should fall on all groups equally. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/equality-of-opportunity-does-not-lead-to-equality-of-results/845088.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/equality-of-opportunity-does-not-lead-to-equality-of-results/845088.md?page=6)