# Erfworld: Book 2 discussion (spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 9, 2010, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-book-2-discussion-spoilers/542528 "2010-06-09T12:58:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-book-2-discussion-spoilers/542528/361 "2012-09-05T13:52:12Z")
Parson not having a plan going in seems to be his standard operating procedure. He has _contingencies_ ready, but never seems to have settled on one until he sees what the situation is. I’m actually a little surprised it took this long to get back to that bat, though. ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-book-2-discussion-spoilers/542528/362 "2012-09-13T07:25:20Z")
> **[Book 2 - Page 88](https://archives.erfworld.com/Book%202/176)** > > Book 2 - Page 88 wonder what Charlie will bring to the table. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-book-2-discussion-spoilers/542528/363 "2012-09-13T08:58:11Z")
> [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > [Erfworld Archives - Book 2 - Page 88](http://www.erfworld.com/2012/09/book-2-%e2%80%93-page-88/) > > wonder what Charlie will bring to the table. Shmuckers, first and foremost. Jetstone have until end of turn to designate an heir or cease to be. But Jetstone have a prisoner and the information that Ossomer turned, both of which are valuable to Charlie, as is keeping Jetstone going. Presumably he’ll pay quickly. The real question will be what he does with his captive. ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-book-2-discussion-spoilers/542528/364 "2012-09-13T09:19:30Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Shmuckers, first and foremost. Jetstone have until end of turn to designate an heir or cease to be. > > But Jetstone have a prisoner and the information that Ossomer turned, both of which are valuable to Charlie, as is keeping Jetstone going. Presumably he’ll pay quickly. > > The real question will be what he does with his captive. Not quite, it was shown that Charlie was listening in to Bunny when Don was talking about Slately having fallen. Charlie knows that the side falls if he doesn’t pay up, that puts him massively in the driving seat. He may well provide schmuckers to designate Tremennis heir, but he will want more than just the captured archon. I assume he will want Parson (dead or alive?) and his mathamancy artifact ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-book-2-discussion-spoilers/542528/365 "2012-09-19T19:27:57Z")
[New Erf](http://www.erfworld.com/2012/09/book-2-%e2%80%93-page-89/) In which Charlie is mean to the dittohead, and reveals his plans for Parson. Let’s see, that’s: Emperor Palpentine from Star Wars, maybe “V” from V for Vendetta, dunno some guy with moustache, Mr. Smith from the Matrix, dunno, Khan from Star Trek, Betelgeuse, and the Joker. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-book-2-discussion-spoilers/542528/366 "2012-09-19T20:00:42Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > maybe “V” from V for Vendetta Doctor Doom ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-book-2-discussion-spoilers/542528/367 "2012-09-19T20:09:51Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > [New Erf](http://www.erfworld.com/2012/09/book-2-%e2%80%93-page-89/) > In which Charlie is mean to the dittohead, and reveals his plans for Parson. > > Let’s see, that’s: Emperor Palpentine from Star Wars, maybe “V” from V for Vendetta, dunno some guy with moustache, Mr. Smith from the Matrix, dunno, Khan from Star Trek, Betelgeuse, and the Joker. Shoulda made it Stewie Griffin in that last panel… ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-book-2-discussion-spoilers/542528/368 "2012-09-19T21:58:25Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > [New Erf](http://www.erfworld.com/2012/09/book-2-%e2%80%93-page-89/) > In which Charlie is mean to the dittohead, and reveals his plans for Parson. > > Let’s see, that’s: Emperor Palpentine from Star Wars, maybe “V” from V for Vendetta, dunno some guy with moustache, Mr. Smith from the Matrix, dunno, Khan from Star Trek, Betelgeuse, and the Joker. Palpatine, Doctor Doom, [Dr. Gero](http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Dr._Gero) (so sayeth Erf forums), Agent Smith, [General Zod](https://www.google.com/search?q=general+zod&hl=en&safe=off&client=ubuntu&hs=MAo&channel=fs&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=Kj9aUPmeFMSn4gTiuICwAw&ved=0CDYQsAQ&biw=1580&bih=819&sei=OD9aUL_CGYSG4gT7gYHQCA) (Superman villain), Khan Noonien Singh, Betelgeuse, and the Joker. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-book-2-discussion-spoilers/542528/369 "2012-09-19T22:44:57Z")
And the king becomes a pawn, literally and figuratively. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-book-2-discussion-spoilers/542528/370 "2012-09-19T23:02:51Z")
I’m not convinced Charlie wants Parson dead. He wants Jetstone to _try_ to kill him, which is not necessarily the same thing. Especially not for a chessmaster like Charlie. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-book-2-discussion-spoilers/542528/371 "2012-09-20T00:46:27Z")
Since we now know from Maggie that a thinkamancer can alter her appearance in a thinkagram, the visual sfx that Charlie uses in _his_ thinkagrams sort of lend credence to the fan theory that Charlie is from Stupidworld too, just like Parson. ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-book-2-discussion-spoilers/542528/372 "2012-09-20T01:03:01Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > Since we now know from Maggie that a thinkamancer can alter her appearance in a thinkagram, the visual sfx that Charlie uses in _his_ thinkagrams sort of lend credence to the fan theory that Charlie is from Stupidworld too, just like Parson. I don’t understand how you reached that conclusion. Can’t Charlie just be a gifted thinkamancer, or one who’s powers are being augmented by the Arkendish? ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-book-2-discussion-spoilers/542528/373 "2012-09-20T01:10:48Z")
Because Charlie’s thinkagrams are guised in allusions to Stupidworld, our world. Even when there’s no one else in the thinkagram for whom those allusions would be meaningful. Maggie has said she can alter her appearance in a thinkagram (when she’s not running & falling on her face). Charlie must be able to do so, too. So it seems likely that Charlie is deliberately choosing his appearance, and that deliberate choice makes it likely that his appearance is meaningful – and _known_ – to Charlie. Plus, that sort of joke where he’s secretly showing how clever he is, is right in line with what else we’ve seen from Charlie. His joke on the Slately ditto is the same sort of thing: he’s mocking someone else to show his own superiority. ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-book-2-discussion-spoilers/542528/374 "2012-09-20T01:44:07Z")
That’s a good point, but Erfworld is loaded to references to Stupidworld. Ansom performed DDR Fighting, Jack made an Erflife blimp veil, not to mention all the pop culture references living in the Magic Kingdom. It’s possible that Charlie’s picking those appearances because he’s really from Stupidworld, but given all the other unrelated references we’ve seen, he could simply be following the same patterns as the rest of Erfworld. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-book-2-discussion-spoilers/542528/375 "2012-09-20T02:18:29Z")
Is the character’s name actually _Betelgeuse_? I always thought it was _Beetlejuice_. Anyway, I know which spelling I have to put into Google images to get a picture of Michael Keaton on the first page of results. ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-book-2-discussion-spoilers/542528/376 "2012-09-20T09:59:20Z")
If I recall correctly, his name is Betelgeuse, and he just uses the beetle + juice charade to explain his name to Lydia. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-book-2-discussion-spoilers/542528/377 "2012-09-20T16:47:11Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Is the character’s name actually _Betelgeuse_? I always thought it was _Beetlejuice_. Yes, hence Adam’s initial mispronunciation–he read it as something like “Bay-tel-gise”, and Barbara had to correct him. (Of course, this is also the guy who thought they’d received a copy of _Handbook for the Recently Diseased_, so perhaps it’s not dispositive.) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-book-2-discussion-spoilers/542528/378 "2012-09-20T20:40:19Z")
It’s also possible that Charlie isn’t actually from Stupidworld, but nonetheless still has knowledge of us. As he himself says, this conversation will go much quicker if we just assume he knows everything, without worrying about how. Personally, my hypothesis is that the Titans brought Parson in as a beta-tester, and Charlie is an internal alpha-tester. They’re both trying deliberately to break the world, so that the Titans can see how to fix it. ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2012, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-book-2-discussion-spoilers/542528/379 "2012-09-27T19:02:04Z")
[Book 2, Page 90](http://www.erfworld.com/2012/09/book-2-%E2%80%93-page-90/) is up. I’m getting annoyed with the agonizingly slow story progress due to the multiple threads that keep getting juggled. Still, it was nice to see the more tactical side of Jojo, though his dialogue almost felt out of character. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2012, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-book-2-discussion-spoilers/542528/380 "2012-09-27T20:03:07Z")
That dialogue felt like he should have twirled his moustaches. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-book-2-discussion-spoilers/542528.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-book-2-discussion-spoilers/542528.md?page=20)