# Erfworld: Book 2 discussion (spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 9, 2010, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-book-2-discussion-spoilers/542528 "2010-06-09T12:58:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-book-2-discussion-spoilers/542528/61 "2010-11-15T14:27:38Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > I find myself hoping that Cubbins and Ace, at least, will survive what is to come. Parson, at least, would appreciate a rocket-backpack. I assume the lack of that jetpack is going to cost Tramennis highly. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-book-2-discussion-spoilers/542528/62 "2010-11-22T12:41:44Z")
[Texty texty text](http://www.erfworld.com/2010/11/book-2-%e2%80%93-text-updates-035/) Jack plays with fire(baugh), and we edge ever closer to something actually happening. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-book-2-discussion-spoilers/542528/63 "2010-11-23T19:14:26Z")
[New Erf](http://www.erfworld.com/2010/11/book-2-%e2%80%93-page-47/) Parlay, over. Sh!t is starting to happen. Somewhat literally. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-book-2-discussion-spoilers/542528/64 "2010-11-23T21:44:26Z")
I’m not really clear what purpose is served by booping all over the roof, though. Is dragon-boop corrosive enough to do structural damage? Or is it just a distraction to cover Parson’s entrance? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-book-2-discussion-spoilers/542528/65 "2010-11-23T23:18:51Z")
**Chronos** : I found [Erfwiki](http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page) for the first time today, and looked up “dwagons”. Yellow dwagons, it turns out, have an attack mode that involves acidic crap. And you can see that the roof is already being burned through enough that the rafters are showing. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2010, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-book-2-discussion-spoilers/542528/66 "2010-12-04T18:47:32Z")
[New Erf](http://www.erfworld.com/2010/12/book-2-%e2%80%93-page-48/) Check out panel 3 and the Duke for the effects of acidic crap. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2010, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-book-2-discussion-spoilers/542528/67 "2010-12-04T19:03:04Z")
I’m disappointed to see Ossomer buying into Tramennis’s attempt to shame him about his chief warlord’s actions. Ansom became a true believer in Toolism when _he_ got decrypted. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2010, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-book-2-discussion-spoilers/542528/68 "2010-12-04T19:34:23Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Ansom became a true believer in Toolism when _he_ got decrypted. Ansom was a true believer before he got decrypted; all that’s changed is what he believes in. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2010, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-book-2-discussion-spoilers/542528/69 "2010-12-04T22:43:53Z")
> [@](#): > > Check out panel 3 and the Duke for the effects of acidic crap. I have to wonder: Is that just damage that gets healed at the end of turn, or is it some sort of persisting maiming effect? Does it have any effect on combat effectiveness? Can a Healomancer fix it? ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2010, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-book-2-discussion-spoilers/542528/70 "2010-12-04T23:41:17Z")
I don’t think we’ve ever seen a cripped Erfworlder. And we’ve seen people near-croaked completely healed at Turn’s end (Caesar, an Archon). So the arm-loss is probably temporary. But good question on combat effectiveness; we haven’t really seen whether any injuries affect a Unit’s combat stats. Also, re: Ossomer & Ansom – recall that Units have Loyalty stats (which can’t be seen by warlords). So Decrypting probably keeps all the same “hidden” stats, just applied to a different Side. Just like **ultrafilter** says. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-book-2-discussion-spoilers/542528/71 "2010-12-09T00:53:27Z")
[New Klog](http://www.erfworld.com/2010/12/book-2-%e2%80%93-parson%e2%80%99s-klog-003/), talking about rations and showing how Parson is starting a food fight. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-book-2-discussion-spoilers/542528/72 "2010-12-09T01:17:40Z")
OK, so it looks like the Hob-mounted dwagons are falling by virtue of the Hobs now being heavy units, which dwagons can’t carry, and that the non-hob riders (are they all decrypted?) are all using the Harvest action to kill their dwagons and make them fall (thus explaining the order, “let’s do lunch”). What happens if the harvested units are decrypted? Do the rations still pop? _Can_ dwagons even be decrypted? Is Parson planning on making use of the rations, or is harvesting just being used as a way to quickly croak mounts? And what of the riders: Most of them probably won’t survive the fall, and most of them are already Decrypted, so Wanda won’t be able to re-raise them. Is he just hoping that the fraction who do survive are enough, or does he have some plan to save the rest, too? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-book-2-discussion-spoilers/542528/73 "2010-12-09T04:25:23Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Ansom became a true believer in Toolism when _he_ got decrypted. > [@ultrafilter](#): > > Ansom was a true believer before he got decrypted; all that’s changed is what he believes in. Okay, but what I saw of pre-Toolist Ossomer didn’t suggest that he was any less of a Royalism zealot than Ansom. Tramennis I can see as a pragmatist. ---
**Author:** ![Tabby\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tabby\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabby_Cat)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-book-2-discussion-spoilers/542528/74 "2010-12-09T04:33:47Z")
I’m not sure that they’re harvesting the dwagons yet. You need a commander to be in the hex to harvest, and Parson’s not in the hex. Is Ossomer a commander? Anyway the rations won’t pop until the next turn, and I’m not sure if the battle will survive this turn, one way or another. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-book-2-discussion-spoilers/542528/75 "2010-12-09T04:38:02Z")
I think that Wanda and/or Jack might technically count as commanders… Wasn’t there something about that in a previous Klog? And those riders sure look like they’re putting the pointy ends of their swords into their dwagons, and there are non-yellows croaking there. It pretty much has to be harvesting. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-book-2-discussion-spoilers/542528/76 "2010-12-09T14:51:24Z")
Anyone with a Leader bonus counts as a commander. They’re harvesting the dwagons because Parson needs them in the other Zone to fight. The warlords and hobgobwins can fall (and be decrypted). The dwagons can’t fall – recall that the last Klog said that you need to weirdomancy flying units to remove their Flying special to get them to fall. The dwagons can’t land, either; that’s Movement, and it’s not their Turn. But if the dwagons are croaked, they drop into the other Zone. And may then be decrypted, too. The hobgobwins turning into heavies look to be another of Parson’s corner-case rule exploits. From what he learned with Bannana over the summer, the mounted heavies will drop into another Zone, possibly surviving (if his experience bears out… although that could have just been friendly-movement-between-zones). Promoting to heavies probably costs schmuckers, but it may be that _only_ the leader-units (i.e., the warlords) can harvest their dwagons, so that’s the way to get the hobgobwin-mounted dwagons down. And then Wanda decrypts the fallen warlords, fallen heavy hobgobwins, croaked dwagons, and crapped Jetstone units… and then Parson shows up. Slately is going to have a _very_ bad day. (can’t wait to see Caesar’s reaction.) edit: I’d say that the warlords doing the harvesting _can’t_ be decrypted for Parson’s plan to work. They’re probably going to croak from their fall, and Wanda can’t re-decrypt the already-decrypted. Plus their livery colors don’t match her decrypted colors. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-book-2-discussion-spoilers/542528/77 "2010-12-10T14:40:54Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > Anyone with a Leader bonus counts as a commander. It’s broader than that – [warlords and casters are both “commanders”](http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F084a.jpg) – casters are rarely used as such because they have a zero leadership bonus and are a lot harder to replace than warlords. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-book-2-discussion-spoilers/542528/78 "2010-12-10T14:46:34Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > I don’t think we’ve ever seen a cripped Erfworlder. And we’ve seen people near-croaked completely healed at Turn’s end (Caesar, an Archon). So the arm-loss is probably temporary. Wounds get healed at the start of the turn, including external signs (Signamancy?) thereof – see Jillian after the BDSM/torture session. The only disablement we’ve seen last longer than that was the mental backlash after Wanda’s suggestion spell snapped; that’s presumably a completely different mechanic than battle damage. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2010, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-book-2-discussion-spoilers/542528/79 "2010-12-11T03:09:40Z")
> [@](#): > > Promoting to heavies probably costs schmuckers, but it may be that only the leader-units (i.e., the warlords) can harvest their dwagons, so that’s the way to get the hobgobwin-mounted dwagons down. Eh, they’ve got the Schmuckers to spare. The cost-benefit analysis is definitely in favor of the decision. > [@](#): > > edit: I’d say that the warlords doing the harvesting can’t be decrypted for Parson’s plan to work. They’re probably going to croak from their fall, and Wanda can’t re-decrypt the already-decrypted. Plus their livery colors don’t match her decrypted colors. They look to me like they’re wearing scarlet and black, same as Ossomer’s unstylish duds. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2010, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-book-2-discussion-spoilers/542528/80 "2010-12-11T21:20:09Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > They look to me like they’re wearing scarlet and black, same as Ossomer’s unstylish duds. They seem to be wearing scarlet and _blue_ – same as the mounted hobgobwins. … Although the now-heavy hobgobwins might be decrypted, if they would survive like Parson did on his not-quite-a-fall on Bannana. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-book-2-discussion-spoilers/542528.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-book-2-discussion-spoilers/542528.md?page=5)