# Erfworld: General Discussion \[spoilers\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 3, 2009, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-general-discussion-spoilers/488205 "2009-03-03T23:14:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-general-discussion-spoilers/488205/321 "2009-12-09T03:31:50Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > [New Erf](http://www.erfworld.com/2009/12/book-2-%e2%80%93-page-11/) > > Wherein we learn Jack’s status, more effects of GK being out of favor in the Magic Kingdom, and that Wanda is definitely off her rocker. Damn. When _Stanley_ is the reasonable one, there’s definitely problems. ---
**Author:** ![Spiratu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@Spiratu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiratu)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-general-discussion-spoilers/488205/322 "2009-12-09T03:33:56Z")
Yeah. The one thing that I was not expecting from this strip was character development from him…nice touch! ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-general-discussion-spoilers/488205/323 "2009-12-09T03:47:55Z")
Stanley is scared shitless of Wanda building and unstoppable army entirely devoted to her. A foolancer is not something he wants her to have in her pocket. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-general-discussion-spoilers/488205/324 "2009-12-09T06:20:16Z")
Even aside from all that, all of Gobwin Knob’s living units effectively have a one-up each. Eventually, the time may come when Jack (or any other high-value unit) might get croaked by the enemy, and it’s a nice ace in the hole to be able to decrypt him then, instead of him turning to dust. And even if the scrolls are hard to come by, he’s low on juice, anyway: They wouldn’t lose much by just keeping him out of the attack on Jetstone proper and letting him heal naturally. I’m surprised, though, that the experiment hasn’t been performed already. In all of Wanda’s conquests, she’s never once scored a caster? OK, by the time of Unaroyal, they’d all just be portalling out before she got the chance, but there were plenty of cities before that. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-general-discussion-spoilers/488205/325 "2009-12-09T09:46:01Z")
Were there not Healamancers at Gobwin Knob (on Jetstone’s side)? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-general-discussion-spoilers/488205/326 "2009-12-09T14:10:40Z")
No, its been pointed out Ansom did not have any casters at all in his army. It makes sense there wouldn’t have been any in the minor cities that fell so far either. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-general-discussion-spoilers/488205/327 "2009-12-09T16:07:05Z")
Archons can shoot those energy beams, and they don’t count as casters? Huh. Interesting to see Stanley actually listening to Parson’s arguments, though. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-general-discussion-spoilers/488205/328 "2009-12-09T20:51:53Z")
Most of the sides we’ve seen have kept their casters back in the capital city – and Unaroyal was the only capital that GK took. And we know where the casters went from there. So it’s not surprising that Wanda hasn’t gotten her hands on a dead caster yet. But I think that Parson’s argument that a Decrypted caster might not be able to cast falls when looking at the Archons. Their “specials” are specifically described as shockamancy, foolamancy, etc. And they use juice. And can still cast once decrypted. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-general-discussion-spoilers/488205/329 "2009-12-10T00:03:58Z")
Yeah, but that’s a special, which might count differently from “real” casting. We already know that uncroaked (but not decrypted) Archons retain some of their abilities (flight, at least), and we also know that uncroaked casters can’t cast spells any more, and just count as generic infantry. Two other points to note in this strip: 1: Parson successfully says “damn”, which I think was booped out in Book 1. So his “fuck” at the end of that book was not a fluke, and he’s permanently past the language filter. 2: Stanley, who’s (at least in some sense) at the head of the “Tools are more important than royalty” movement, still regards royalty as something to be esteemed. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-general-discussion-spoilers/488205/330 "2009-12-10T01:39:48Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Were there not Healamancers at Gobwin Knob (on Jetstone’s side)? Not sure about Healomancers; they had Altruist Elves, who were assigned to throw healings where necessary (original book, strip 22). If, as **Chronos** suggests, the energy manipulations of the archons count as “specials” rather than casting _per se_, the same might be true of any decrypted Altruist Elves. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-general-discussion-spoilers/488205/331 "2009-12-10T06:01:14Z")
Of course, that just puts us back to the question of why the GK army doesn’t have healing capability. We know that a decrypted unit with a special that mimics casting can still use that special, as evidenced by the Archons. And there were enough Altruist Elves at the battle, and enough casualties successfully decrypted, that it defies plausibility that none of them were salvageable. So why doesn’t GK have a few decrypted Altruists in that army, to use instead of expensive healing scrolls? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-general-discussion-spoilers/488205/332 "2009-12-10T13:06:39Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > 1: Parson successfully says “damn”, which I think was booped out in Book 1. So his “fuck” at the end of that book was not a fluke, and he’s permanently past the language filter. He also cussed during the Summer Updates scene describing Stanley’s return to GK. > [@](#): > > 2: Stanley, who’s (at least in some sense) at the head of the “Tools are more important than royalty” movement, still regards royalty as something to be esteemed. Well, royals have better stats and level faster (an obvious undeniable fact, given that stats and levels are readily visible to commanders). ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-general-discussion-spoilers/488205/333 "2009-12-10T17:57:15Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > …So why doesn’t GK have a few decrypted Altruists in that army, to use instead of expensive healing scrolls? What Ansom has in the field is a strike force, which apparently consists of flying units like Dwagons and Archons, plus casters and warlords. So they probably didn’t fit the mission profile – particularly if they’re units that can’t be mounted on dwagons (like Parson). And, let’s face it, at least Wanda and maybe Stanley seem to regard the decrypted as renewable resources. Probably didn’t consider that they’d want to _heal_ decrypted units – they can always make more. And since the original plan didn’t call for putting casters in the line of fire, Ansom wouldn’t have seen the need either. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-general-discussion-spoilers/488205/334 "2009-12-10T18:41:20Z")
Yabbut, that brings us back to the fact that there are only two people in the expeditionary force who aren’t already Decrypted (Wanda and Jack), and only one Decrypted one is likely to be considered non-expendable (Ansom). Why should she care about the expense of using up a couple of Healing scrolls? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-general-discussion-spoilers/488205/335 "2009-12-10T18:55:02Z")
Hmm. On re-reading, I see that Healomancy scrolls are not being characterized as “expensive” so much as “difficult to obtain.” That might change the dynamic, insofar as divining Wanda’s motives is concerned, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-general-discussion-spoilers/488205/336 "2009-12-11T00:08:04Z")
Actually, I think that Wanda’s _motives_ are only to explore how powerful the Arkenpliers can make her (no matter the cost). Her justification, though, I think was alluded to in the text update where Sizemore noted how out-of-favor GK is in the Magic Kingdom. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-general-discussion-spoilers/488205/337 "2009-12-11T01:09:18Z")
> [@](#): > > Yabbut, that brings us back to the fact that there are only two people in the expeditionary force who aren’t already Decrypted (Wanda and Jack), and only one Decrypted one is likely to be considered non-expendable (Ansom). I’m pretty sure all the dwagons are living, too, and we’ve already seen that Stanley isn’t all that fond of losing dragons, even to good strategic ends. Actually, Stanley really doesn’t seem all that bad, anyway: He really cares for his troops, and I don’t think we’ve ever seen him do anything crueller than allowing Wanda to do the things she does. OK, maybe he’s deluded about the Titans’ plan, but he’s honestly deluded and well-meaning. And then again, we don’t know the Titans’ plan, either: Maybe he _isn’t_ deluded. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-general-discussion-spoilers/488205/338 "2009-12-11T01:55:00Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Actually, Stanley really doesn’t seem all that bad, anyway: He’s not royal, though, and he’s ruling. Obviously, he’s bad. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2009, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-general-discussion-spoilers/488205/339 "2009-12-12T04:06:43Z")
[new text update](http://www.erfworld.com/2009/12/book-2-text-updates-004/) So if I’m interpreting correctly, one way for an Heir to usurp from the Ruler is to get the side’s Natural Allies to do the dirty work. Wonder if that’s how Don King’s son’s attempt went down – it doesn’t seem like Transylvito has any natural allies, now, after all… ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-general-discussion-spoilers/488205/340 "2009-12-18T17:34:03Z")
[New Erf](http://www.erfworld.com/2009/12/book-2-%E2%80%93-page-12/) We get to see Queen Jillian in her new gear, meet King Slately, and _finally_ get to see what a megalogwiff looks like. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-general-discussion-spoilers/488205.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/erfworld-general-discussion-spoilers/488205.md?page=18)