# Eric Holder makes changes to federal civil forfeiture program **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 17, 2015, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eric-holder-makes-changes-to-federal-civil-forfeiture-program/710105 "2015-01-17T22:50:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2015, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eric-holder-makes-changes-to-federal-civil-forfeiture-program/710105/21 "2015-01-18T23:57:29Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Things like crack cocaine are recent inventions and were never legal, right? We could legalize opium poppies and coca plants but these would inevitably be processed into new, more destructive forms. Require people to take them in a government-run facility, under strict supervision. It can be in pleasant surroundings, but always within control of medical personnel and security personnel. It works. There’s a meth clinic across the street from my work. The addicts get government meth, cleaner than clean. They take it in a controlled environment, outpatient setting. Over time the goal is to slowly step them down to a lower dose, but that’s less important than the facts that they are 1. Getting a clean supply, which removes the poisoning risk of adulterated street meth 2. Not committing crimes to buy/make meth 3. Being monitored closely every day by medical staff for the usual health problems, and getting treatment for any that arise People are going to take this stuff, and a minority will get addicted (this is true for most drugs). Criminalizing it just makes things more dangerous, for everyone on every level. Remember how Prohibition failed so hard? Same thing. ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eric-holder-makes-changes-to-federal-civil-forfeiture-program/710105/22 "2015-01-19T00:01:15Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > _Every_ drug? Heroin? DDT? Thalidomide? Laudanum? Morphine? Fen-Phen? > > We have the 4th amendment _now_. The existence of the 4th amendment hasn’t prevented any of the “desecrations” you seem to think are happening. Yes, every drug that people commonly become addicted to. As far as things like fen-phen, it should be looked at on a case-by-case basis. If you think the Founding Fathers would be OK with the current state of the 4th, you are on crack. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eric-holder-makes-changes-to-federal-civil-forfeiture-program/710105/23 "2015-01-19T00:09:50Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > If you think the Founding Fathers would be OK with the current state of the 4th, you are on crack. 😉 There are a lot of things about America today that the Founding Fathers wouldn’t be OK with, like permanent diplomatic alliances, or a standing army, or an industrial-based economy, or including letting women, coloreds, and poor people vote, or prohibiting slavery. America was not born perfect in 1789. It is a work in progress. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eric-holder-makes-changes-to-federal-civil-forfeiture-program/710105/24 "2015-01-19T00:17:03Z")
Why on Earth would we subsidize and encourage addiction? If someone is independently wealthy and can afford it and handle it, they pretty much are already doing it. I’m not paying people to be addicts. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eric-holder-makes-changes-to-federal-civil-forfeiture-program/710105/25 "2015-01-19T01:15:43Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Why on Earth would we subsidize and encourage addiction? If someone is independently wealthy and can afford it and handle it, they pretty much are already doing it. I’m not paying people to be addicts. You’re _already_ paying a hella lot _more_ that it would cost to support addicts, to keep trying to prevent addicts, the way we are going about it now. Oh, but this way, they can always pay for it with all those seizures. Long as it happens to other people, right? ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eric-holder-makes-changes-to-federal-civil-forfeiture-program/710105/26 "2015-01-19T02:43:42Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > There are a lot of things about America today that the Founding Fathers wouldn’t be OK with, like permanent diplomatic alliances, or a standing army, or an industrial-based economy, or including letting women, coloreds, and poor people vote, or prohibiting slavery. > > America was not born perfect in 1789. It is a work in progress. Coming from you, literally, of all people on this forum, this is just unbelievable. LOL ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eric-holder-makes-changes-to-federal-civil-forfeiture-program/710105/27 "2015-01-19T15:57:13Z")
Kudos to Holder, altho I’d like to know why he didn’t do this years ago. Did the FBI try to sieze his sister’s house or something? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eric-holder-makes-changes-to-federal-civil-forfeiture-program/710105/28 "2015-01-19T20:19:05Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > _Every_ drug? Heroin? DDT? Thalidomide? Laudanum? Morphine? Fen-Phen? > > We have the 4th amendment _now_. The existence of the 4th amendment hasn’t prevented any of the “desecrations” you seem to think are happening. I would do DDT so hard if given the chance! :rolleyes: I’m guessing it would take a Supreme Court action at this point to stop these sort of 4th amendment violations on a national level. Don’t most/all of these public servants swear to uphold the constitution when they are hired/elected? What happened? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eric-holder-makes-changes-to-federal-civil-forfeiture-program/710105/29 "2015-01-19T20:39:30Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > I’m guessing it would take a Supreme Court action at this point to stop these sort of 4th amendment violations on a national level. Don’t most/all of these public servants swear to uphold the constitution when they are hired/elected? What happened? They swore to uphold the Constitution, not your personal interpretation of what the 4th amendment ought to mean. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eric-holder-makes-changes-to-federal-civil-forfeiture-program/710105/30 "2015-01-19T20:48:06Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > We’re not getting the 4th amendment back until every drug is legalized. And yet these guys are stealing shit _when there aren’t any drugs involved_. The problem is corrupt cops: if they couldn’t use drugs as an excuse, they’d still have the mafia, or terrorism, or simple tax evasion. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eric-holder-makes-changes-to-federal-civil-forfeiture-program/710105/31 "2015-01-19T21:05:21Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > Anyway, that even some Republicans are praising Holder for this shows how insidious the practice is. Call me jaded but I suspect the Republicans like it because it makes for a larger cut for their local constituents now that they don’t have to share with the Feds. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eric-holder-makes-changes-to-federal-civil-forfeiture-program/710105/32 "2015-01-19T22:58:32Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > And yet these guys are stealing shit _when there aren’t any drugs involved_. The problem is corrupt cops: if they couldn’t use drugs as an excuse, they’d still have the mafia, or terrorism, or simple tax evasion. True. What I called before the “perverse incentive” would still be in effecy. If the product of civil forfeitures had to be put into the common state/federal General Fund pot (i.e. not even earmarked for the county or town in which it happens), the police may be somewhat less aggressive about it, and could even conceivably resent the Revenue Department wanting them to serve as shakedown agents if there’s nothing in it for them. Also, the whole notion as seen in some of the case reports, that “normal people don’t carry around that much cash for legitimate purposes” tells you about the authorities’ presumptions (one does wonder: Has no legislator/judge EVER owned/managed/patronized a lawful business that generates a few thousand in cash sales in a day?). But one can see that it would fit into a greater policy approach of, since we can’t ban them, let’s make it too much risk/PITA to have \*any \*sort of large cash transaction _at all_. ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eric-holder-makes-changes-to-federal-civil-forfeiture-program/710105/33 "2015-01-19T23:10:05Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > And yet these guys are stealing shit _when there aren’t any drugs involved_. The problem is corrupt cops: if they couldn’t use drugs as an excuse, they’d still have the mafia, or terrorism, or simple tax evasion. It would become harder to get away with, though. And law enforcement would become noticeably less well-funded and important. THAT’S a good thing, too. ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eric-holder-makes-changes-to-federal-civil-forfeiture-program/710105/34 "2015-01-19T23:12:33Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > They swore to uphold the Constitution, not your personal interpretation of what the 4th amendment ought to mean. Wouldn’t you be more comfortable living under a fascist regime? Americans are not known for their love of authority. How about North Korea? Russia? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eric-holder-makes-changes-to-federal-civil-forfeiture-program/710105/35 "2015-01-19T23:18:37Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > And law enforcement would become noticeably less well-funded and important. THAT’S a good thing, too. No, that’s a bad thing. The problem here is with a voting public that has been convinced that low taxes and spending cuts are the be-all and end-all of responsible government, thus forcing budget-starved police departments to rely on civil forfeiture to cover their operating expenses. And for the record, I heartily agree that civil forfeiture has been grossly abused. ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eric-holder-makes-changes-to-federal-civil-forfeiture-program/710105/36 "2015-01-20T01:49:32Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > No, that’s a bad thing. > > The problem here is with a voting public that has been convinced that low taxes and spending cuts are the be-all and end-all of responsible government, thus forcing budget-starved police departments to rely on civil forfeiture to cover their operating expenses. > > And for the record, I heartily agree that civil forfeiture has been grossly abused. Whatever. Those departments have enough money. They spend the extra on luxuries/toys. Would you like a link on that? ---
**Author:** ![DoggyDunnit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5fc32e/32.png) [@DoggyDunnit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoggyDunnit)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eric-holder-makes-changes-to-federal-civil-forfeiture-program/710105/37 "2015-01-20T03:39:54Z")
Back in '11, I had a very nice, custom-built Haro hard-tail mountain bike–fat all-terrain tires, seat perfectly fitted to my rear-end, disc brakes, the whole works–seized by the cops, despite the fact I presented my receipts and everything to show that, in fact, yes–I was the legit owner. In their “minds”, a nice mountain bike under the ass of a young black man just had to be stolen/bought with drug money. :rolleyes: Fort Worth may be Fort Worthless, but there are worse places in Tex-ass. I high-tailed it back to FW mere days after that happened. ---
**Author:** ![user\_hostile](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/user_hostile/32/474_2.png) [@user\_hostile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/user_hostile)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eric-holder-makes-changes-to-federal-civil-forfeiture-program/710105/38 "2015-01-20T05:39:40Z")
So has anyone ever taken any of these cases to SCOTUS? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eric-holder-makes-changes-to-federal-civil-forfeiture-program/710105.md?page=1)