# ESB: The Battle of Hoth **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 14, 2005, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esb-the-battle-of-hoth/308173 "2005-06-14T02:52:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esb-the-battle-of-hoth/308173/41 "2005-06-15T00:42:32Z")
Seems like the Empire did a good enough job without air support. They won in a walk! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Scrivener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@The\_Scrivener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Scrivener)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esb-the-battle-of-hoth/308173/42 "2005-06-15T00:52:08Z")
It would’ve been considerably more lopsided if they hadn’t lost 40% of their AT-AT Walkers, though. Esp. with the crews dead, not wounded. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esb-the-battle-of-hoth/308173/43 "2005-06-15T00:58:27Z")
> [@Soapbox Monkey](#): > > The walkers’ shields were too strong for blasters to do any damage. But the way I see it, the fall knocked out the walker’s shield system and then a few blaster shots were enough to take it out. Every time I see this scene, with the infantry running toward the AT-AT before the snowspeeder shoots at it, I always think “Killstealer!” I’ve been spending way too much time with online games… I always took the sudden effectiveness of the blasters to mean that the awkward position the AT-AT fell into allowed a weak point to be hit more easily. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Scrivener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@The\_Scrivener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Scrivener)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esb-the-battle-of-hoth/308173/44 "2005-06-15T01:02:28Z")
> [@BayleDomon](#): > > the awkward position the AT-AT fell into allowed a weak point to be hit more easily. That’s how I always saw it, although there’s no question that the hard fall would loosen things up inside and make a big bang easier, if not inevitable. The killing shot is just like the \*coup de grace \* administered by a bullfighter. Now, who wants the ears and tail? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esb-the-battle-of-hoth/308173/45 "2005-06-15T01:36:58Z")
> [@fiddlesticks](#): > > But at that point in the movie, the goal is to find and kill the boy who blew up the Death Star, along with as many of his cohorts as possible. If the goal had been to nab Skywalker a more surgical option would have been needed. > > The Emperor assigns Vader the finding Luke _alive_ task after the Hoth battle is over (the Executor has to move out of the asteroid field so that the apparently high bandwidth holographic transmission can be made). No, Vader is interested in finding Luke right from the get-go. He knows his name and that means Vader’s forming his ‘take over the galaxy’ plan pre-ESB. Here’s the opening crawl from Empire: > [@](#): > > It is a dark time for the Rebellion. Although the Death Star has been destroyed, Imperial troops have driven the Rebel forces from their hidden base and pursued them across the galaxy. Evading the dreaded Imperial Starfleet, a group of freedom fighters led by Luke Skywalker has established a new secret base on the remote ice world of Hoth. The evil lord Darth Vader, obsessed with finding young Skywalker, has dispatched thousands of remote probes into the far reaches of space… ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esb-the-battle-of-hoth/308173/46 "2005-06-15T02:40:00Z")
> [@The Scrivener](#): > > The killing shot is just like the \*coup de grace \* administered by a bullfighter. Now, who wants the ears and tail? “Sorry Senor, but thee ATAT does not always lose!” ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esb-the-battle-of-hoth/308173/47 "2005-06-15T02:58:22Z")
> [@BayleDomon](#): > > Every time I see this scene, with the infantry running toward the AT-AT before the snowspeeder shoots at it, I always think “Killstealer!” > I’ve been spending way too much time with online games… > . Yeah. What the frack was that? They’re supposed to be defending the base, so when one of the walkers comes tumbling down, some dumbass leaps out of his trench and is going to…do what exactly? Cut it open with his field knife? He also seems to have forgotten there were still 4 walkers trotting along. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esb-the-battle-of-hoth/308173/48 "2005-06-15T03:07:28Z")
> [@Soapbox Monkey](#): > > The walkers’ shields were too strong for blasters to do any damage. But the way I see it, the fall knocked out the walker’s shield system and then a few blaster shots were enough to take it out. Ooo, that’s even better! > [@The Scrivener](#): > > Absolutely. I should’ve been more specific – I meant air support to protect the Walkers from a rebel aerial attack. They should’ve had a squadron of Tie Fighters to pick off the Rebel Snow Speeders. (BTW, how could Darth Vader, of all peop… er, entities, forget about air support? Dogfighting was his particular battlefield specialty when he was a Jedi!) Ah, but at this point (thanks to that incompetent, Ozzel) Vader already knows he won’t catch the Rebel leaders on the ground. He’s using the walkers purely to flush the Rebels off-planet. He doesn’t care what happens to them, because he’s going to catch them in space. That’s where he needs the fighters. The walkers? So long as they don’t all get wiped out, who cares? They’re just infantry. Vader is a navy man. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Scrivener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@The\_Scrivener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Scrivener)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esb-the-battle-of-hoth/308173/49 "2005-06-15T03:09:15Z")
> [@Mr. Miskatonic](#): > > “Sorry Senor, but thee ATAT does not always lose!” Would Speedy Gonzalez say, _“AH-TAY, AH-TAY, andelay, andelay, arriba!”_? “Laugh it up, fuzzball!” – FWIW, I scooped you on the kind of [signature gag](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=321114&page=1) in this thread that one would normally wait for, with bated breath, from a “ **Mr. Miskatonic** ”. (You have to check out the photo on p.1 first; my posts are on pp.3-4) T’was right in your wheelhouse, buster… 😛😉 ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esb-the-battle-of-hoth/308173/50 "2005-06-15T08:47:11Z")
As someone pointed out in a similar thread on this subject, the Walkers are excellent **psychological** weapons, from a tactical standpoint, they don’t make much sense. Presumably the folks have radar (or something similar) in the SW universe, so the Walkers would have lit up the scopes like a Xmas tree, long before the grunts on the ground could have seen them. The image that Walkers project to folks is: We’re the biggest Ogdamned target you ever saw, and you can’t do shit to us, no matter how hard you try. As for the garbled transmission from the probe, things like that happen all the time with Earthly probes, and NASA has a dedicated group of individuals designed to sort them all out. The last few minutes of telemetry from _Columbia_ were initially read as jibberish, but after processing they were able to glean some valuable data out of it. Presumably, with technology capable of hurling starships across the galaxy, the Empire’s got sophisticated computers capable of analyzing bits of data and sorting them out on the fly. Now, with the fleet being dropped out of lightspeed, it could be that there were other probes in the system which were trying to pinpoint the sensor operations of the rebels, without revealing their presence. The fleet could be waiting for that data, in order to know where the gaps in the coverage might be, thus picking out the best place to drop in and surprise the rebels. If the fleet dropped out of lightspeed **before** that survey had been completed, then the safest tactic, from a military standpoint, would be to assume that your cover had been blown, and go in with guns blazing. Given that Ozzel couldn’t be bothered to follow standard protocol in a situation as important as this was, demoting him really isn’t much of an option. It’s only going to make him surly and bitter, thus prime pickings for joining the rebellion, and if Ozzel’s familiar with classified information (like the DS 2.0 is being built near Endor), then the rebellion could skip most of the rest of the film, and 90% of the final film, and show up at Endor and trash the DS 2.0 before the subcontractors had gotten the first SlurpeeMart installed (and you’ve _got_ to have the SlurpeeMart built **before** you get the planet smasher up and running). Thus eliminating all the possible mechandizing opportunities (and more importantly depriving us of the image of Leia in a brass bikini), so naturally, Vader couldn’t allow that to happen. ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esb-the-battle-of-hoth/308173/51 "2005-06-15T09:15:36Z")
I said in that other thread that if the Empire wanted to insist on those huge AT-ATs, they should at least have given them more weapons. I’d design it with a missile rack, a small turbolaser on the back to use in a siege, and cannons on the sides and back. Heavy armor is nice and all, but without heavy weapons what’s the point? ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esb-the-battle-of-hoth/308173/52 "2005-06-15T13:14:32Z")
> [@The Scrivener](#): > > Now, who wants the ears and tail? Do fries come with that? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esb-the-battle-of-hoth/308173/53 "2005-06-15T14:24:58Z")
> [@sturmhauke](#): > > I said in that other thread that if the Empire wanted to insist on those huge AT-ATs, they should at least have given them more weapons. I’d design it with a missile rack, a small turbolaser on the back to use in a siege, and cannons on the sides and back. Heavy armor is nice and all, but without heavy weapons what’s the point? Aren’t they troop transports? ---
**Author:** ![tanstaafl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba8739/32.png) [@tanstaafl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanstaafl)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esb-the-battle-of-hoth/308173/54 "2005-06-15T15:49:47Z")
> [@adam yax](#): > > Aren’t they troop transports? Good point. AT-AT stands for All Terrain Armored **Transport**. So, they’re basically HumVees, not tanks… ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esb-the-battle-of-hoth/308173/55 "2005-06-15T15:54:37Z")
For all your questions about the Battle ofHoth, I recommend this brilliant documentary: [http://www.atomfilms.com/af/content/battle\_hoth](http://www.atomfilms.com/af/content/battle_hoth) It seems to me that the ideal strategy would have been to come out of hyperspace far enough away that the fleet would not have been detected. An airstrike or commando mission could then have been lauched to destroy the field generator and ion cannon battery. After that the planet could have been blockaded and the base blown up from orbit. sturmhauke - the AT-AT had lasers or whatever powerful enough to blow up the shield generator with one or two shots. I’ll agree that it probably could use some more smaller weapons scattered about. > [@](#): > > One more nitpick with the Hoth sequence: Luke says, “Watch that crossfire, boys”. WTH? It’s a frontal assault and the AT-ATs weren’t mounting any “crossfire” whatsoever! Sure they could. If you have a line of AT-ATs spaced 500 meters apart firing at the incoming speeders, it would create a “crossfire” in the sense of the speeders would be in the field of fire of multiple AT-ATs. Also there were smaller AT-STs hopping about the battlefield. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esb-the-battle-of-hoth/308173/56 "2005-06-15T18:55:12Z")
How do they deploy AT-ATs? Dropships? Detachable engine/wing/command pods, that allow them to act as shuttles? Cannister/chute combos? ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esb-the-battle-of-hoth/308173/57 "2005-06-15T19:24:17Z")
> [@tanstaafl](#): > > Good point. AT-AT stands for All Terrain Armored **Transport**. Yeah, I know that. But we only ever see the handful of crew in the head, not the troops waiting in the back. When it comes time for the troops to unload, they would be pretty damn high up, increasing the chance for injuries before they are even fully battle ready. I forgot how powerful those head lasers are, but the AT-AT is still a somewhat poorly designed vehicle. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esb-the-battle-of-hoth/308173/58 "2005-06-15T20:15:40Z")
> [@HPL](#): > > Yeah. What the frack was that? They’re supposed to be defending the base, so when one of the walkers comes tumbling down, some dumbass leaps out of his trench and is going to…do what exactly? Cut it open with his field knife? Well, it was cold out and he wanted to keep warm inside the corpse. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esb-the-battle-of-hoth/308173/59 "2005-06-15T20:45:42Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Well, it was cold out and he wanted to keep warm inside the corpse. And I thought they smelled bad…on the outside. ---
**Author:** ![HubZilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@HubZilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HubZilla)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esb-the-battle-of-hoth/308173/60 "2005-06-15T20:45:46Z")
> [@Max Carnage](#): > > Didn’t look like the Empire brought a ton of ships with them. Why did the Rebels feel that their only escape route was through the Star Destroyers? Go up…or down…it’s not like they had the only bridge out of town blockaded. Same reason the Queen’s ship in Phantom Menace went straight _toward_ the bad guys ship. > [@JohnT](#): > > Simple: He hit the colored pixels So that pilot had the force!! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esb-the-battle-of-hoth/308173.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esb-the-battle-of-hoth/308173.md?page=4)