# Escaped murderer from Pennsyvania state prison captured by K9 police officer **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 13, 2023, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/escaped-murderer-from-pennsyvania-state-prison-captured-by-k9-police-officer/990060 "2023-09-13T16:55:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/escaped-murderer-from-pennsyvania-state-prison-captured-by-k9-police-officer/990060/61 "2023-09-15T17:05:38Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > The talking heads on the news tried to make a big deal out of the guys that got him taking a photo with him. Good to see their concern for someone who stabbed his girlfriend to death in front of her children. So the only reason not to want law enforcement officers to act like barbarians is love for murderers? You don’t think bad bebhavior should be called out regardless of who it targets? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/escaped-murderer-from-pennsyvania-state-prison-captured-by-k9-police-officer/990060/62 "2023-09-15T17:46:47Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > So the only reason not to want law enforcement officers to act like barbarians is love for murderers? You don’t think bad bebhavior should be called out regardless of who it targets? It wasn’t terrible behavior, not illegal, understandable to some. I’d think should such a thing occur again someone would remind those involved that it’s bad form and avoid it. There’s a time and place to call out something like this, and that wasn’t it. It was just base criticism of the police in an attempt to make a story when none was there. Don’t hold your breath waiting for the media to address this matter appropriately. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/escaped-murderer-from-pennsyvania-state-prison-captured-by-k9-police-officer/990060/63 "2023-09-15T18:07:17Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > It wasn’t terrible behavior, Yes, it was. > [@TriPolar](#): > > not illegal It should be. > [@TriPolar](#): > > understandable to some. So are lots of atrocities. > [@TriPolar](#): > > I’d think should such a thing occur again someone would remind those involved that it’s bad form and avoid it. In other words, a slap on the wrist that will not change future behavior > [@TriPolar](#): > > There’s a time and place to call out something like this, and that wasn’t it. Wtf? Why shouldn’t we call put wrongdoing when it happens? Posing for a photo with a hogtied prisoner is dehumanizing. I don’t care what the prisoner did, whether he deserves to suffer or not - I care about the behavior of the men and women that are empowered by the state to use force on others, and how they go about doing this. I do not trust them to determine whether a given individual deserves to be dehumanized or not - that’s not their job. So if I see them dehumanizing someone, I’m not going to ask what that person did - I’m going to condemn the dehumanizing behavior. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/escaped-murderer-from-pennsyvania-state-prison-captured-by-k9-police-officer/990060/64 "2023-09-15T19:15:57Z")
Are you certain that you are not dehumanizing the police? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/escaped-murderer-from-pennsyvania-state-prison-captured-by-k9-police-officer/990060/65 "2023-09-15T19:19:08Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > Are you certain that you are not dehumanizing the police?. Pretty certain, but your question is interesting - so tying someone up and posing with them face-down in the dirt, like they were an impressively antlered stag you bagged is _not_ dehumanizing, but asking whether someone is behaving appropriately _is_? That seems to make no sense at all, but maybe you can walk me through your logic here. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/escaped-murderer-from-pennsyvania-state-prison-captured-by-k9-police-officer/990060/66 "2023-09-15T19:44:52Z")
The captured murderer was no more dehumanized by this picture than he was before. No harm came to him. He was no hog-tied, he was treated the way captured dangerous convicts are supposed to be treated, hands and feet cuffed so he was no danger to the officers. There’s nothing at all wrong with that. Should they have let him free to take a picture? Oh, no picture you say? Why not? Because perp walks and the like have been used in an abusive manner in the past? Maybe that’s a reason but this was a private photo showing the officers at the time of their successful apprehension of a dangerous murderer. Should the photo not have been published immediately? No it shouldn’t have, the only wrong to find here is with the person who released the photo though. How wrong was it? Nowhere near wrong enough to mention at the time when the public was receiving the news that they no longer had to fear a man who had stabbed a woman to death in front of her children then had escaped prison, stole a gun, and as it turned out planned on carjacking a vehicle to continue fleeing the authorities. Should that be wrong at all then what do propose besides a slap on the wrist? Should we send whoever released the photo to prison for life to prevent it from happening again? It’s not even clear to me that this was in any way wrong in this circumstance. There was no doubt about the identity of this man or the crime he committed or his danger to the public. Your complaints are not based in reality. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/escaped-murderer-from-pennsyvania-state-prison-captured-by-k9-police-officer/990060/67 "2023-09-15T19:47:28Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > so tying someone up and posing with them face-down in the dirt, like they were an impressively antlered stag you bagged is _not_ dehumanizing That is not what happened here. I will repeat he was treated exactly the way any other escaped murderer would be. It would be irresponsible to do otherwise. He would have been photographed also so don’t try to pretend that changed anything. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/escaped-murderer-from-pennsyvania-state-prison-captured-by-k9-police-officer/990060/68 "2023-09-15T19:52:24Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Should they have let him free to take a picture? Oh, no picture you say? Why not? Because perp walks and the like have been used in an abusive manner in the past? Maybe that’s a reason but this was a private photo showing the officers at the time of their successful apprehension of a dangerous murderer. This post seems to be ignoring the obvious. Posing with captured/killed prey is a typical thing with game animals. A perp walk photo is a picture of a person being arrested. It’s not dehumanizing to take a picture of an accused criminal; it’s dehumanizing to mimic the sort of picture that is more commonly used for animals. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/escaped-murderer-from-pennsyvania-state-prison-captured-by-k9-police-officer/990060/69 "2023-09-15T20:18:56Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > It’s not dehumanizing to take a picture of an accused criminal; it’s dehumanizing to mimic the sort of picture that is more commonly used for animals. He was standing up, no appearance of any harm that came to him. So by your logic they couldn’t have photographed him at all after capture because there’s no other way to pose someone in that circumstance. If you want to talk about the propriety of releasing the photo you might have some point of argument. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the photo that was taken though. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/escaped-murderer-from-pennsyvania-state-prison-captured-by-k9-police-officer/990060/70 "2023-09-15T20:25:57Z")
That does not follow by my logic unless you ignore what I said, and I disagree strongly that there is nothing wrong with the photo. And given the controversy over it, I’m not exactly the odd one out on that opinion. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/escaped-murderer-from-pennsyvania-state-prison-captured-by-k9-police-officer/990060/71 "2023-09-15T20:31:20Z")
You made the claim that the arresting officers were mimicking the sort of picture that is more commonly used for animals. That would require a conscious decision on those officers to do that. Is there any reason to believe that motive existed? How else could they have photographed the captured murderer? ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/escaped-murderer-from-pennsyvania-state-prison-captured-by-k9-police-officer/990060/72 "2023-09-15T20:33:17Z")
they guy was lucky that there were so many humans around the dog … just for perspective not even a trained and very fit army dog handler stands a chance against an attack from those belgium shepperds: Unfortunately in Austria a couple of years ago there was an accident, where a skilled and trained army K9 officer got killed by one of those belgium dogs while job-babysitting them at an army camp (they were not his unit’s dogs - but he knew the dogs well IIRC). He was said to be severly bitten, blead to death an was found spread out “over 50 meters around the kernell” ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/escaped-murderer-from-pennsyvania-state-prison-captured-by-k9-police-officer/990060/73 "2023-09-15T20:58:26Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I don’t know what it is that causes these tiny rat-like creatures to yip so much. I suspect some sort of canine insecurity, because deep down in their tiny hearts they know they’re not real dogs. Insufficient environment. My mother-in-law bred chihuahuas. They were actually _calm_. Were mostly silent. Not at all hyper. I suspect this had a lot to do with her never, ever permitting anyone to mistreat or frighten them, they had safe spots to retreat to should they feel a need to do so (especially when a lot of company was over) that still allowed them to watch what was going on, training, and socializing them as if they were “full size” dogs. As usual - it’s not the dog that’s the problem, it’s usually the owner(s). ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/escaped-murderer-from-pennsyvania-state-prison-captured-by-k9-police-officer/990060/74 "2023-09-15T21:03:27Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > As usual - it’s not the dog that’s the problem, it’s usually the owner(s). Completely agree, and needless to say, I was being a bit facetious about little dogs. But they do very frequently seem to be nervous and yappy. I prefer my dogs large and drooly! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/escaped-murderer-from-pennsyvania-state-prison-captured-by-k9-police-officer/990060/75 "2023-09-15T21:14:47Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > The captured murderer was no more dehumanized by this picture than he was before. He was hogtied and posed with like a prized kill. Of course he was dehumanized. You may say he deserved it, and I may agree with you, but my problem here isn’t with the experience he undergoes - it is with the mental state of someone who poses with a restrained human being as if they were a butchered animal, and the knowledge that this same person gets to walk around armed and with the authority to arrest others. That’s a recipe for disaster. > [@TriPolar](#): > > Should they have let him free to take a picture? Oh, no picture you say? Why not? Because perp walks and the like have been used in an abusive manner in the past? You can take as many photos of him as you need for archival purposes. This isn’t a mugshot, it serves no police purpose whatsoever. It was taken to stroke the egos of the people standing there with their prize. > [@TriPolar](#): > > Should we send whoever released the photo to prison for life to prevent it from happening again? What the fuck are you talking about? All I said was that this photo was inappropriate, and that I don’t like this sort of unprofessional behavior in the people we give guns and the authority to use them on other human beings. If you really need it spelled out - no, no one needs to go to prison for this. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/escaped-murderer-from-pennsyvania-state-prison-captured-by-k9-police-officer/990060/76 "2023-09-15T21:16:46Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > That is not what happened here. I will repeat he was treated exactly the way any other escaped murderer would be. It would be irresponsible to do otherwise Are you under the impression that I object to him having been arrested? Or to his mugshot being taken when he’s getting processed back into prison? No, none of those things are a problem. What IS a problem is when police officers act like children playing _Counterstrike_ instead of professional adults with power over life and death. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/escaped-murderer-from-pennsyvania-state-prison-captured-by-k9-police-officer/990060/77 "2023-09-15T21:18:17Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > How else could they have photographed the captured murderer? [![](https://static01.nyt.com/images/2023/08/24/fashion/24Styles-Mugs-Combo/24Styles-Mugs-Combo-videoSixteenByNine3000.jpg) ](https://static01.nyt.com/images/2023/08/24/fashion/24Styles-Mugs-Combo/24Styles-Mugs-Combo-videoSixteenByNine3000.jpg) This is what mugshots typically look like. Notice how these prisoners aren’t face down in the mud with half a dozen grinning officers posing around them? ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/escaped-murderer-from-pennsyvania-state-prison-captured-by-k9-police-officer/990060/78 "2023-09-15T21:50:39Z")
It wasn’t a mug shot picture. It was from the field. Very different sort of photos. I’m sure they took a mugshot photo later. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/escaped-murderer-from-pennsyvania-state-prison-captured-by-k9-police-officer/990060/79 "2023-09-15T22:05:18Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > It wasn’t a mug shot picture. It was from the field. Very different sort of photos. Right. Very different in that, for example, a mugshot has a valid procedural purpose for a police department to take, whereas these photos were clearly taken celebrate the capture of the escaped prisoner and glorify the people who caught him by posing with the convict the way that one poses with the target of any other hunt. In a civilized society with _professional_ law enforcement, this is highly inappropriate. Game hunters who pose with their kill in this way do it for fun, for bragging rights. For police officers to use that kind of imagery with a captured human being - especially considering all the other times when police have gotten caught mistreating people - sends the wrong message. It’s pretty gross. Again, these are people that we trust to make life or death decisions in our society. That’s an enormous responsibility; while carrying out their duty, they shouldn’t act in ways that trivialize it. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/escaped-murderer-from-pennsyvania-state-prison-captured-by-k9-police-officer/990060/80 "2023-09-15T22:42:31Z")
Time to abandon this thread - veering out of control. Summary: Good Dog Good Capture Killer back to prison. The end. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/escaped-murderer-from-pennsyvania-state-prison-captured-by-k9-police-officer/990060.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/escaped-murderer-from-pennsyvania-state-prison-captured-by-k9-police-officer/990060.md?page=5)