# Esoteric online comic question **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 8, 2005, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esoteric-online-comic-question/307494 "2005-06-08T19:17:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2005, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esoteric-online-comic-question/307494/1 "2005-06-08T19:17:26Z")
What is the back story on the seeming animosity between [pVp Comics](http://www.pvponline.com/) and [Penney Arcade](http://www.penny-arcade.com/index.php3)? They seem to take pot shots at each other every now and then, but I am not 100% clear why. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2005, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esoteric-online-comic-question/307494/2 "2005-06-08T19:55:38Z")
I take pot shots at my best friend almost daily. It’s more a rivalry than animosity, and they’ve been known to team up against a third party (like Wiley or Non-Sequitor fame). Scott does have an abrasive side, though. Quoted from someone else’s quote from Scott Kurtz’ blog > [@](#): > > “It’s not a well kept secret that myself and the guys are Penny-Arcade have a very strong rivalry going. Both sides tend to find secret anger in the other’s accomplishments. Luckily said rivalry, as heated as it sometimes gets, always moves us in positive directions. Our strips are polar opposites and we have always pushed each other to improve and make progress.” ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2005, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esoteric-online-comic-question/307494/3 "2005-06-08T19:56:24Z")
They’re just friendly rivals, and take good-natured potshots at one another from time to time. It’s been that way since I started reading both of them. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esoteric-online-comic-question/307494/4 "2005-06-10T00:16:57Z")
Scott Kurtz once again weighed in on his relationship with the Penny Arcade folks today. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esoteric-online-comic-question/307494/5 "2005-06-10T00:29:01Z")
Jeez…that pVp comic is not funny. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esoteric-online-comic-question/307494/6 "2005-06-16T17:49:14Z")
Now, if you want real animosity, check out [PvP](http://www.pvponline.com/) > [@Scott Kurtz](#): > > Now, I know this is going to send everyone over at CAD on a total snit, but let’s all be brutally honest here. CAD does not share a “formula similar to Penny-Arcade”. Buckley has observed and replicated Penny-Arcade’s formula EXACTLY. Everything from the violence and cursing, to the entertainment-unit turned sentient being, to the unnecessary use of a dash in the URL has been painstakingly lifted from Penny-Arcade. and [Ctrl+Alt+Del](http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/index.php) > [@Tim Buckley](#): > > Fuck you, Scott Kurtz…I create my comic the best way I know how, and I have worked very, very hard to get where I am. Don’t you dare accuse me of ripping off Penny Arcade, a comic I didn’t even know existed when I decided to start a webcomic based off of the lives of my best friend and I. A comic I started for fun, mind you, hoping that maybe I could entertain a few people for free and create something to be proud of, and never dreaming that I would have to put up with people who throw hissy fits just because it’s another comic about video games. I really do hope the _Penny Arcade_ guys chime in. This kind of feud can only be resolved in a barbed wire, explosive wrestling ring on PPV. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esoteric-online-comic-question/307494/7 "2005-06-16T19:55:53Z")
And here I thought they were arguing over which creator was the biggest gonad. 😛 (Nice art styles, guys, but what’s with the attitudes?) ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esoteric-online-comic-question/307494/8 "2005-06-16T20:03:00Z")
> [@Argent Towers](#): > > Jeez…that pVp comic is not funny. To each his own, but wow…you’d have to reach down to something like “Donald Wildmon is a clear-thinking, understanding human being” to find a statement I disagree with more. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esoteric-online-comic-question/307494/9 "2005-06-16T20:07:17Z")
Yeah, me, too. I think PvP is the finest web comic around. Kurtz knows what he’s doing. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esoteric-online-comic-question/307494/10 "2005-06-16T20:46:45Z")
PvP is #5 in my top five. (The others being Penny Arcade, VG Cats, Questionable Content, and 8-Bit Theater.) ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esoteric-online-comic-question/307494/11 "2005-06-16T20:56:20Z")
> [@](#): > > To each his own, but wow…you’d have to reach down to something like “Donald Wildmon is a clear-thinking, understanding human being” to find a statement I disagree with more. I meant that particular comic in the link presented, but it’s a different one now (and it still doesn’t make sense.) If anyone would care to explain the humor in the comic currently linked to by that pvp link, please do - I don’t get it at all. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esoteric-online-comic-question/307494/12 "2005-06-16T21:00:18Z")
> [@Argent Towers](#): > > I meant that particular comic in the link presented, but it’s a different one now (and it still doesn’t make sense.) If anyone would care to explain the humor in the comic currently linked to by that pvp link, please do - I don’t get it at all. As a matter of fact, it changes every day. Sometimes, it builds on the events of the previous day. Sort of like a story. So step back about… oh, 10? days in the archives, and go forward. ---
**Author:** ![Bites\_When\_Provoked](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bites_when_provoked/32/18073_2.png) [@Bites\_When\_Provoked](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bites_When_Provoked)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esoteric-online-comic-question/307494/13 "2005-06-17T03:23:27Z")
What Kurtz said about Ctrl-Alt-Del was completely uncalled for. I’ve been reading C-A-D, PvP and Penny Arcade for years and there’s no way that C-A-D is a rip-off of PA. The writing style is different, the humour is lot less mean (not that I have anything against PA’s humour - far from it)… it’s a whole different thing. My own opinion is that over the years C-A-D has become a more \*consistently \* funny comic than PA. Over the years Kurtz’s ego has blown out of control. The PA guys are at least honest and revel in their reputation for being sharp-edged and more than a little mean when it suits them - but Kurtz tries to have it both ways. He wants people to think he’s a nice guy, but he also wants to be able to cut people down without provocation. He wants people to respect the time he puts into his comic but then he trivialises other people’s efforts. Bottom line: he is \*not \* a nice person. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Ash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71c47a/32.png) [@Mr.Ash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Ash)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esoteric-online-comic-question/307494/14 "2005-06-17T14:24:05Z")
> [@Bites When Provoked](#): > > He wants people to respect the time he puts into his comic but then he trivialises other people’s efforts. Agreed. Aside from his whole passive-agressive public persona, this is what bothers me the most. He’s on this ego crusade to garner respect for webcomics and doing his best to paint syndicated comics as “trying to put him down”, but he flys into a frothy rage because a mainstream article dares to mention another “lesser” webcomic in the same breath as him. He’s already shifted to passive mode by hiding his original article and replacing it with a toned down version - just like he’s done several times before. I know there are many instances where people say silly things to stir up publicity, but I’m afraid to give him that much credit. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esoteric-online-comic-question/307494/15 "2005-06-17T14:28:52Z")
On the one hand, I only know of the existence of PvP because of Kurtz’s various shitstorms and dust-ups. On the other hand, I still don’t read his strip. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esoteric-online-comic-question/307494/16 "2005-06-17T14:30:03Z")
> [@Argent Towers](#): > > I meant that particular comic in the link presented, but it’s a different one now (and it still doesn’t make sense.) If anyone would care to explain the humor in the comic currently linked to by that pvp link, please do - I don’t get it at all. He tends to have a story-line each week. Try going back to Sunday\* and reading through. \*Or maybe Monday, I just read it every day, so the scheduling isn’t very important to myself. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esoteric-online-comic-question/307494/17 "2005-06-17T14:31:57Z")
ANNNND after posting I took the two seconds to look: Sunday. Apologies for the spam. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esoteric-online-comic-question/307494/18 "2005-06-17T15:35:10Z")
> [@Scott Kurtz](#): > > It’s not a well kept secret that **myself** and the guys are Penny-Arcade have a very strong rivalry going. Both sides tend to find secret anger in the other’s accomplishments. > [@Tim Buckley](#): > > Don’t you dare accuse me of ripping off Penny Arcade, a comic I didn’t even know existed when I decided to start a webcomic based off of the lives of my best friend and **I**. Neither one of them gets the grammar prize for the correct use of the first person. But using “myself” the way Kurtz does makes my eyes bleed harder, so I already hate him more. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esoteric-online-comic-question/307494/19 "2005-06-17T20:11:48Z")
> [@Mr. Ash](#): > > Agreed. Aside from his whole passive-agressive public persona, this is what bothers me the most. He’s on this ego crusade to garner respect for webcomics and doing his best to paint syndicated comics as “trying to put him down”, but he flys into a frothy rage because a mainstream article dares to mention another “lesser” webcomic in the same breath as him. He’s already shifted to passive mode by hiding his original article and replacing it with a toned down version - just like he’s done several times before. Huh. Apparently people “didn’t understand” what he was trying to say when he said that Ctrl-Alt-Del is a ripoff of Penny Arcade, and so his new “revision” is about drama in webcomics. I think my irony meter broke. And his post today compares this to editing your website to update it, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esoteric-online-comic-question/307494/20 "2005-06-17T23:04:44Z")
Scott Kurtz (_PvP_) said Tim Buckley (_Ctrl+Alt+Del_) copied Penny-Arcade’s formula. Tim Buckley denied. SDMB readers can weigh the evidence: [first](http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/?t=archives&date=2002-10-23), [second](http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/?t=archives&date=2002-10-24), [third](http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/?t=archives&date=2002-10-25) (obviously parodying _PvP_), and [fourth](http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/?t=archives&date=2002-10-26) comics in the CAD series. We can parse words to infer that Buckley didn’t know about PA when decided to _start_ his webcomic, but by the fourth strip he certainly had heard of it and even referenced it. Kurtz is still an ass, but I don’t let that get in the way of my enjoyment of _PvP_.