# ESPN. Really? The Arthur Ashe award to Jenner? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 2, 2015, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489 "2015-06-02T23:36:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![stillownedbysetters](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/41988e/32.png) [@stillownedbysetters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stillownedbysetters)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/1 "2015-06-02T23:36:57Z")
Today’s announcement that ESPN is giving this year’s Arthur Ashe award for courage to the 1970s athlete formerly known as Bruce Jenner is bringing out my inner Yosemite Sam, or as you folks around here like to say…it’s making me stabby! Really? In a year when you had the outstanding, gracious, and mature-beyond-her-years Lauren Hill available, you chose Jenner? I pit you for making this regrettable choice because you are a bunch of publicity w\*\*\*\*s hoping to hitch your wagon to a guaranteed moneymaker by jumping on the gender bending cause du jour. Arthur Ashe would be spinning in his grave! Taking nothing away from the outstanding athletic achievements of Jenner in the 1970s, I must point out that any connection he had with athletics faded away years ago. If you couldn’t find it in your money grubbing little hearts to give the award to Lauren Hill, what about Jim Kelley, who has faced a very grim bout with cancer with considerable courage, grit, and determination, and who has used his situation, again like Ms. Hill, for the benefit of others? This isn’t (necessarily) a rant against Jenner. I have no frame of reference for what it is that he is doing with his life, perhaps it truly is courageous. But it has nothing whatsoever to do with athletics. Thank you, and goodnight. ---
**Author:** ![Abe\_Babe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3ab097/32.png) [@Abe\_Babe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abe_Babe)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/2 "2015-06-02T23:53:08Z")
Why should they give the Arthur Ashe Award to a singer? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/3 "2015-06-02T23:57:10Z")
I think it’s this [Lauren Hill](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauren_Hill_(basketball)) ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/4 "2015-06-03T00:01:16Z")
> [@Abe\_Babe](#): > > Why should they give the Arthur Ashe Award to a singer? 19 year old athlete, [died of brain cancer.](http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaw/2015/04/10/lauren-hill-obit-cancer-brain-tumor/21393079/) ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/5 "2015-06-03T00:25:52Z")
At least it wasn’t the Bobby Riggs award. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/6 "2015-06-03T00:28:30Z")
“…presented to the sports-related person(s) or team, irrespective of gender or sport contested, adjudged to have made the most significant or compelling humanitarian contribution in transcendence of sports in a given year.” It’s specifically for transcending sports, not for being an athlete. And while people who die with dignity do make a contribution, no athlete has ever made the kind of contribution to transgender awareness that Caitlyn Jenner is making. I think she is the obvious choice for the award, even if it weren’t going to considerably increase the audience for the ESPYs. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/7 "2015-06-03T00:30:46Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > “…presented to the sports-related person(s) or team, irrespective of gender or sport contested, adjudged to have made the most significant or compelling humanitarian contribution in transcendence of sports in a given year.” > It’s specifically for transcending sports, not for being an athlete. And while people who die with dignity do make a contribution, no athlete has ever made the kind of contribution to transgender awareness that Caitlyn Jenner is making. > > I think she is the obvious choice for the award, even if it weren’t going to considerably increase the audience for the ESPYs. Perfect response. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/8 "2015-06-03T00:39:38Z")
Aye; well said **SpoilerVirgin**. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/9 "2015-06-03T00:48:45Z")
Thank you. As I discussed in the original thread about Jenner following the Diane Sawyer interview, that interview was a personal turning point for me in my ability to understand and support transgender individuals. I believe that Jenner’s story can change minds because it changed mine. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/10 "2015-06-03T00:55:34Z")
I am old enough to remember watching Bruce in the Olympics in the '70s. Think I was 4. It is a commemorative award for awareness and being a retired athlete, I guess that’s how they chose him. Her. Her, dammit! See, that part is going to take me ten years. Her, her, her. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/11 "2015-06-03T01:10:43Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > Thank you. As I discussed in the original thread about Jenner following the Diane Sawyer interview, that interview was a personal turning point for me in my ability to understand and support transgender individuals. I believe that Jenner’s story can change minds because it changed mine. My understanding of the issues, stigma, options, and lives of transgender people was greatly enhanced by [**Una Persson** ’s thread a year and a half ago](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=711614), but I have not seen Ms. (?) Jenner’s interview yet. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/12 "2015-06-03T01:16:29Z")
As I’ve mentioned on this board before, I have a 16 year old son who came out to me and my ex a year ago. He is transgendered and wants to be reassigned. This is very, very difficult to come to terms with as a parent of a boy, who was always a boy. I believe Caitlyn is helping my family, and probably many, many other families somehow come to terms with this really confusing and sometimes embarrassing issue. As a parent it’s really tough to come to terms with. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e79b87/32.png) [@The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Joker_and_the_Thief)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/13 "2015-06-03T01:27:01Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > “…presented to the sports-related person(s) or team, irrespective of gender or sport contested, adjudged to have made the most significant or compelling humanitarian contribution in transcendence of sports in a given year.” > It’s specifically for transcending sports, not for being an athlete. And while people who die with dignity do make a contribution, no athlete has ever made the kind of contribution to transgender awareness that Caitlyn Jenner is making. > > I think she is the obvious choice for the award, even if it weren’t going to considerably increase the audience for the ESPYs. But this isn’t “transcending sports”. This is in fact irrespective of sports, because what he did isn’t causally related to athletic endeavor but is solely of interest to transgender activists and their supporters. Exactly the same impact could have been made by any person of equivalent public stature who decided to take the same action. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/14 "2015-06-03T01:31:16Z")
> [@The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](#): > > But this isn’t “transcending sports”. This is in fact irrespective of sports, because what he did isn’t causally related to athletic endeavor but is solely of interest to transgender activists and their supporters. Exactly the same impact could have been made by any person of equivalent public stature who decided to take the same action. Look up transcending in the dictionary. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e79b87/32.png) [@The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Joker_and_the_Thief)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/15 "2015-06-03T01:46:46Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Look up transcending in the dictionary. > [@](#): > > transcend |tranˈsend| > verb [with obj.] > be or go beyond the range or limits of (something abstract, typically a conceptual field or division): _this was an issue transcending party politics._ > • surpass (a person or an achievement). In order to transcend, there must be some relation to the subject in question. Here there is none. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/16 "2015-06-03T02:00:23Z")
> [@The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](#): > > In order to transcend, there must be some relation to the subject in question. Here there is none. Yes, there is. The award is given to the person or persons (or organization) “adjudged to have made the most significant or compelling humanitarian contribution in transcendence of sports in a given year”. “In transcendence of sports”… going beyond sports. To say that Ms. Jenner’s fame arose from something other than sports is going to be very tough, some would say impossible, to argue successfully. Yet her current situation and all the talk is NOT about sports; she has transcended her sports fame and focused her (and other people’s) attention on something else. That’s exactly what the award seems to be designed to acknowledge, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/17 "2015-06-03T02:00:25Z")
“Go beyond the range of limits.” I’m fine with the applicability of this definition as it applies to Ms. Jenner. ETA: Ninjad by Bo. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/18 "2015-06-03T02:01:34Z")
> [@The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](#): > > In order to transcend, there must be some relation to the subject in question. Here there is none. I suggest you look at many of the [other recipients of the award.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Ashe_Courage_Award) Many were former athletes or other sportspeople who faced diseases or other challenges that had nothing to do with sports itself. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/19 "2015-06-03T02:14:01Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > “In transcendence of sports”… going beyond sports. To say that Ms. Jenner’s fame arose from something other than sports is going to be very tough, some would say impossible, to argue successfully. Yet her current situation and all the talk is NOT about sports; she has transcended her sports fame and focused her (and other people’s) attention on something else. Yeah this. People who have the most to learn about being sensitive to transgender people are most likely the people who remember Caitlyn as a male athlete. Even if they complain about this being some sort of a Kardashian publicity stunt, most people still didn’t learn of Jenner via KUWTK. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/20 "2015-06-03T02:20:05Z")
> [@The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](#): > > In order to transcend, there must be some relation to the subject in question. Here there is none. Jenner is famous solely because she was an Olympic champion. Well, that and the Kardashian show but presumably [then] he would never have married Kris Kardashian had he not been a prominent athlete. George Weah won the award after his retirement for his efforts to repair the damage of the Liberian Civil War, not for being really good at football. Nelson Mandela never played competitive sports at all. Neither did Robin Roberts. Jim Valvano had only a tangiential connection to sports when he battled cancer. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489.md?page=2)