# ESPN. Really? The Arthur Ashe award to Jenner? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 2, 2015, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489 "2015-06-02T23:36:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/41 "2015-06-03T16:46:34Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > He threw assholes into a quarry. Surprised you made it out. > > Other than that, he had the shit blown out of him and decided that he not only wouldn’t quit, he would excel. I’m sorry that my number two vote for Jenner wasn’t good enough for you. Oh, did that feel good to insult me because I dared to not fawn over a wounded vet? Awwww… Again I ask: how did Mr. Galloway transcend sports? In what way? You feel sorry for him? Great. You admire his pluck? Awesome. But in what way do you think he meets the criteria for THIS award? It’s a simple, and an honest, question. I see no way that Mr. Galloway “transcended sports”, but all I did was read the wiki article on him; perhaps you have other information that would bring your opinion out of the “kneejerk jingoism” category and into the “reasonable option” category. But I doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/42 "2015-06-03T16:50:40Z")
> [@stillownedbysetters](#): > > bunch of publicity w\*\*\*\*s You know you can say ‘whores’, it won’t cause anyone’s eyes to bleed or anything. The whoring whores who whore. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/43 "2015-06-03T16:56:52Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > My understanding of the issues, stigma, options, and lives of transgender people was greatly enhanced by [**Una Persson** ’s thread a year and a half ago](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=711614), but I have not seen Ms. (?) Jenner’s interview yet. Same here, and with other threads on this board. I dislike reality TV and celebrity culture in general, but many people watch it, and if it’s a way to get them to understand transgender issues the way this board has for me, then good for Caitlin Jenner on doing it. And somebody’s doing something right if I’m agreeing with Mr **Bo** , I think that’s unprecedented. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/44 "2015-06-03T17:42:31Z")
> [@stillownedbysetters](#): > > Ah, I can just feel all the love… > > All joking aside, you can disagree with me all you like - I expected it when I made this post. But there’s no need for personal insults. I won’t do that to you. > > I’ve read your arguments and considered them, but you haven’t changed my mind. It has nothing to do with my feelings about the LGBT community and everything to do with my thoughts that this is a publicity grab, not a sports-related award. > > FWIW, I’m a bleeding heart, card carrying, liberal Democrat and I thought it was nothing but a publicity grab when Obama won the Nobel Peace Prize for being America’s first black president over other individuals who had made actual contributions to peace. I still feel that way and I rather like Obama. I believe firmly that he was chosen because of his high profile, not because of his accomplishments. And I feel the same way about Jenner. > > I’ve not much liked Jenner in recent years, but that has nothing to do with his gender orientation and everything to do with his public persona. He hasn’t come across well in his interactions with own children, and I have grave doubts whether or not he gave any consideration to the effects on his children (and no, I’m not including the Kardashian spawn) of making his recent decisions. They’ve stood behind him publicly, but I have to wonder how much flack they are taking from the outside world. And the cavalier way he has dismissed his culpability in the recent auto accident that took a woman’s life is distasteful to me, too. I’m not seeing a courageous individual here. I’m seeing a self-indulgent one. And I feel that there are other, more worthy, candidates for this award. > > You may flame away. Her Her She Her Her Her She Her Thought that for a “bleeding heart, card carrying, liberal Democrat” whose feelings have “nothing to do with his gender orientation and everything to do with his public persona,” you might need a little help there. I’m sure all of those were just a minor oversight and not an intentional bullshit gesture to shame. Right? ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/45 "2015-06-03T18:30:20Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Oh, did that feel good to insult me because I dared to not fawn over a wounded vet? Awwww… > > Again I ask: how did Mr. Galloway transcend sports? In what way? > > You feel sorry for him? Great. You admire his pluck? Awesome. > > But in what way do you think he meets the criteria for THIS award? > > It’s a simple, and an honest, question. I see no way that Mr. Galloway “transcended sports”, but all I did was read the wiki article on him; perhaps you have other information that would bring your opinion out of the “kneejerk jingoism” category and into the “reasonable option” category. But I doubt it. Since you left out the condescending smilie this time I’ll refrain from alluding to any form of Assholiness. Merriam Webster Transcend : to rise above or extend notably beyond ordinary limits. Rip a few limbs off yerself and show us some excellence in sports. I’m not sure why you are so dead set against Mr. Galloway. Do you feel the same about Jim McLaren, Robin Roberts, and Emmanuel Ofosu Yeboah? Maybe you can start a petition and get their Arthur Ashe Awards disqualified. But hey, go ahead and beat me up because I thought your hero was only the second most worthy and not the bestest bestest most worthy in the world. You’re gonna have to use a bat though cuz all of the rocks are in the quarry. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/46 "2015-06-03T18:44:06Z")
> [@stillownedbysetters](#): > > You may flame away. You misunderstand. Nobody’s flaming you. Nobody’s shocked by your outrageous perspective. You’re just not a decent person, and other people can tell that when you talk. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/47 "2015-06-03T18:52:01Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > Would you support Lauren Hill for the award, and if so, how do you think that cancer is related to sports in a way that being transgender is not? WAG, but I think it may be because Lauren Hill was still involved with the sport up until her death. [QUOTE=Snowboarder Bo] It’s a simple, and an honest, question. I see no way that Mr. Galloway “transcended sports”, but all I did was read the wiki article on him; perhaps you have other information that would bring your opinion out of the “kneejerk jingoism” category and into the “reasonable option” category. But I doubt it. [/QUOTE] C’mon, this is just assholish. Triumph over\*\* extreme\*\* adversity _is_ transcending. [QUOTE=BubbaDog] Jenner made an amazing statement but she still was so much a part of that Reality “I NEED ATTENTION” Kardashian mess these last few years that it takes some of the shine off of her choice. [/QUOTE] This feels real to me. Could be my own prejudice at play, I don’t know. The prejudice against media whores, not the transgender-ed. If Jenner had made the decision closer to the end of her career in sports, or had not been involved in reality TV, my initial reaction may have been quite different. That initial reaction was predicated Jenner being long removed from sports. Then someone linked to past recipients, many who were also long removed… Long story short, I have no problem now with Jenner being the recipient, but I can respect the opinion that others may have been more deserving. Different strokes and all that. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/48 "2015-06-03T19:18:52Z")
Jenner’s involvement in reality tv is exactly what gives her the platform to make a difference and “transcend” sports. Without the tv show, younger people would have no idea who she is. Those are the people who matter as they will be ruling the world soon. Who cares what close-minded old people think. They and their generation will be gone soon (thank god). ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/49 "2015-06-03T19:55:53Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > Jenner’s involvement in reality tv is exactly what gives her the platform to make a difference and “transcend” sports. Without the tv show, younger people would have no idea who she is. Those are the people who matter as they will be ruling the world soon. Who cares what close-minded old people think. They and their generation will be gone soon (thank god). _I’ll dance on your grave, you young punk!!!_ Anyway, I think you are mistaken. If Jenner had not been involved in reality TV, the decision would still have made headlines. If Rollie Fingers or Goose Gossage or Jim Brown had made that decision, the media would still have been all over it. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/50 "2015-06-03T20:05:54Z")
What I find amusing about this discussion is that Noah Galloway is primarily known for his participation in a reality show (_Dancing with the Stars_), as well as for being on MTV’s _True Life_, another reality show. If being famous for reality T.V. disqualifies you for the award, then I’m not sure why Galloway should be considered over Jenner. Of course this is not my actual opinion. I think that Noah Galloway would have been a reasonable choice, but that Caitlyn Jenner made a more significant and compelling humanitarian contribution this year. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/51 "2015-06-03T20:23:48Z")
I don’t think Noah qualifies as he’s not a “sports related person”. He was a soldier who got badly wounded and he’s does some amazing things, but he’s not a sports guy. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/52 "2015-06-03T20:34:04Z")
I don’t know if I would have voted for Jenner, but she is certainly not the worst choice. It is a tough call between her or Lauren Hill. Galloway seems better suited for the Jimmy V Perseverance Award. However, Devon Still’s daughter is rightfully taking home that award this year. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/53 "2015-06-03T22:14:17Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I don’t think Noah qualifies as he’s not a “sports related person”. He was a soldier who got badly wounded and he’s does some amazing things, but he’s not a sports guy. He competes in a lot of extreme racing competitions: CrossFit events, Tough Mudders, Spartan races, as well as marathons. That definitely makes him a sports guy, although not at the elite level. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/54 "2015-06-03T22:23:43Z")
A lot of handicapped people play sports. What makes Noah Gallagher more deserving than, say, [any of these guys](http://www.slantmagazine.com/assets/film/murderball.jpg)? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/55 "2015-06-04T01:01:27Z")
Rather than get into an unseemly debate over whether or not Galloway deserve it more than Jenner, how many people even knew who he was. The outrage strikes me as really out of proportion. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/56 "2015-06-04T01:16:07Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > A lot of handicapped people play sports. What makes Noah Gallagher more deserving than, say, [any of these guys](http://www.slantmagazine.com/assets/film/murderball.jpg)? I largely agree with you, but Murderball, which I believe that picture is from won a ton of awards and I wouldn’t be surprised if it won an Espy if the give awards to movies. I don’t know if Zupan has, but I suspect he himself would question the comparison since he was paralyzed by his own admission due to his and a friend’s stupidity when he got drunk which is a bit different from someone injured in a war where, presumably, he was at least in theory, serving others. I should say, I personally consider Mark Zupan a hero and inspiration so I don’t mean the above to be an attack on him. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/57 "2015-06-04T01:19:22Z")
The outrage has nothing to do with Noah Galloway or any other alternate choice, and everything to do with the fact that Caitlyn Jenner is transgender. Caitlyn is the clear, obvious choice for this award, and the only reason that other names are being promoted is because people don’t want her to receive it. The good news is that ESPN made the right choice, and all the noise on the Internet won’t change that. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/58 "2015-06-04T04:30:41Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > Since you left out the condescending smilie this time I’ll refrain from alluding to any form of Assholiness. > > Merriam Webster > > Transcend : to rise above or extend notably beyond ordinary limits. > > Rip a few limbs off yerself and show us some excellence in sports. I’m not sure why you are so dead set against Mr. Galloway. Do you feel the same about Jim McLaren, Robin Roberts, and Emmanuel Ofosu Yeboah? Maybe you can start a petition and get their Arthur Ashe Awards disqualified. > > But hey, go ahead and beat me up because I thought your hero was only the second most worthy and not the bestest bestest most worthy in the world. You’re gonna have to use a bat though cuz all of the rocks are in the quarry. How did Mr. Galloway transcend sports by playing sports? 😕 You don’t seem to even grasp the reason that this award exists or what it is awarded for. You’re coming off as bigoted and stupid, and I’m reasonably sure that isn’t what you’re trying to do. So in addition to looking stupid and bigoted, you’re also a failure. Ddamn. Looks like this just isn’t gonna be you’re thread, and I feel sorry for you for that. So sorry, in fact, that I will reciprocate your good gesture and refrain from labeling you with your achievements here, no matter how much you may deserve it. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/59 "2015-06-04T06:33:57Z")
> [@faithfool](#): > > Her > Her > She > Her > Her > Her > She > Her > > Thought that for a “bleeding heart, card carrying, liberal Democrat” whose feelings have “nothing to do with his gender orientation and everything to do with his public persona,” you might need a little help there. I’m sure all of those were just a minor oversight and not an intentional bullshit gesture to shame. Right? Not to mention trying to shame people for insulting him when he deliberately chose to post in the Pit. He gets to rant, but no one else can rant back at him? And he gets to be all passive aggressive with the insults and thinks those don’t count? I actually did think that, in his first post, pronoun use aside, he made a good point. Until **SpoilerV** came and explained the purpose of the award, I though he might have been right. It’s this subsequent post that convinces me that he wasn’t just mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/60 "2015-06-04T06:39:26Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > C’mon, this is just assholish. Triumph over\*\* extreme\*\* adversity _is_ transcending. Transcending adversity? Yes. Transcending sports, as is required by the award? No. Now is it possible to transcend sports in the situation you’ve described? Sure. If he made some big public push for handicapped rights over this, that could count as transcending sports. But merely playing the sport after injury does not transcend sports. I’m not saying it’s not a huge accomplishment. I’m not saying this shouldn’t be something to be honored. But it doesn’t fit the award as described in this thread. Heck, I’d love a “played through adversity” award in sports. I find that I only find sports engaging if I can care about the players. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489.md?page=4)