# ESPN. Really? The Arthur Ashe award to Jenner? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 2, 2015, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489 "2015-06-02T23:36:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/61 "2015-06-04T10:34:57Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Jenner is famous solely because she was an Olympic champion. Well, that and the Kardashian show but presumably [then] he would never have married Kris Kardashian had he not been a prominent athlete. > > George Weah won the award after his retirement for his efforts to repair the damage of the Liberian Civil War, not for being really good at football. Nelson Mandela never played competitive sports at all. Neither did Robin Roberts. Jim Valvano had only a tangiential connection to sports when he battled cancer. You mean the Robin Roberts who was offered a basketball scholorship at LSU? Who accepted a tennis scholorship at Southeastern Louisiana? ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/62 "2015-06-04T12:34:14Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > How did Mr. Galloway transcend sports by playing sports? šŸ˜• > > You donā€™t seem to even grasp the reason that this award exists or what it is awarded for. Youā€™re coming off as bigoted and stupid, and Iā€™m reasonably sure that isnā€™t what youā€™re trying to do. So in addition to looking stupid and bigoted, youā€™re also a failure. > > Ddamn. Looks like this just isnā€™t gonna be youā€™re thread, and I feel sorry for you for that. So sorry, in fact, that I will reciprocate your good gesture and refrain from labeling you with your achievements here, no matter how much you may deserve it. Good job of deflecting my question. Iā€™ll ask it again, just so you wonā€™t have to look it up. Do you feel the same about Jim McLaren, Robin Roberts, and Emmanuel Ofosu Yeboah? All have been faced with disablity in some way but were known for their sports activities. All have received the Arthur Ashe Courage Award. Itā€™s called an opinion. I have one. If believing someone has shown more courage for their actions compared to another is bigoted go ahead and plant that label on me. I can handle it. Iā€™m a big fan of Don Cheadle but a bigger fan of Harrison Ford so I must also be a racist. Iā€™ll pick a Harrison Ford movie over a Sandra Bullock movie - must be a sexist too. Would rather vacation in the Bahamas than Miami - I probably hate America. Iā€™m just one big fucking mess here. Give me one of those BF rocks and Iā€™ll tie myself to it and we can heave it into the quarry. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/63 "2015-06-04T13:09:07Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > Give me one of those BF rocks and Iā€™ll tie myself to it and we can heave it into the quarry. . Iā€™m in favor of that. ---
**Author:** ![Honey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honey/32/5074_2.png) [@Honey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honey)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/64 "2015-06-04T13:09:57Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Not to mention trying to shame people for insulting him when he deliberately chose to post in the Pit. He gets to rant, but no one else can rant back at him? And he gets to be all passive aggressive with the insults and thinks those donā€™t count? > > I actually did think that, in his first post, pronoun use aside, he made a good point. Until **SpoilerV** came and explained the purpose of the award, I though he might have been right. Itā€™s this subsequent post that convinces me that he wasnā€™t just mistaken. I believe **StillownedbySetters** is a woman. ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/65 "2015-06-04T13:55:32Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > Iā€™m in favor of that. Well, if youā€™d like we can scare up another rock and some rope. Do you want to go tandem or sequentially? Iā€™ll let you go first. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/66 "2015-06-04T16:13:30Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > Good job of deflecting my question. > Iā€™ll ask it again, just so you wonā€™t have to look it up. > Do you feel the same about Jim McLaren, Robin Roberts, and Emmanuel Ofosu Yeboah? > All have been faced with disablity in some way but were known for their sports activities. All have received the Arthur Ashe Courage Award. Why do you think he would object to them? Theyā€™re all people from sports backgrounds (somewhat tenuously in Robertsā€™ case) with serious medical conditions, who won an Arthur Ashe award for their non-sports related activities. You know, just like Caitlyn Jenner? ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/67 "2015-06-04T16:33:23Z")
> [@stillownedbysetters](#): > > FWIW, Iā€™m a bleeding heart, card carrying, liberal Democrat and I thought it was nothing but a publicity grab when Obama won the Nobel Peace Prize for being Americaā€™s first black president over other individuals who had made actual contributions to peace. I still feel that way and I rather like Obama. I believe firmly that he was chosen because of his high profile, not because of his accomplishments. And I feel the same way about Jenner. Surprise. Arbitrary awards are arbitrary. ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/68 "2015-06-04T16:48:43Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Why do you think he would object to them? Theyā€™re all people from sports backgrounds (somewhat tenuously in Robertsā€™ case) with serious medical conditions, who won an Arthur Ashe award for their non-sports related activities. You know, just like Caitlyn Jenner? So transcendence is directional? To bring awareness to a situation outside of the realm of sports you can only start from the position of being a known athlete? If this is a specific rule of the award then I stand corrected. ---
**Author:** ![CinnamonBabka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bbce88/32.png) [@CinnamonBabka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CinnamonBabka)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/69 "2015-06-04T16:54:19Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > Surprise. Arbitrary awards are arbitrary. Exactly! I donā€™t know whatā€™s more dumbfounding to me ā€“ that people are surprised over ESPN giving the award to someone who will get people talking about them, or that people think giving the award to Jenner is a publicity stunt while circle-jerking over wounded troops has nothing to do with publicity. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/70 "2015-06-04T17:03:23Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > So transcendence is directional? To bring awareness to a situation outside of the realm of sports you can only start from the position of being a known athlete? > > If this is a specific rule of the award then I stand corrected. It was in Post #6 in this thread: ā€œā€¦presented to the sports-related person(s) or team, irrespective of gender or sport contested, adjudged to have made the most significant or compelling humanitarian contribution in transcendence of sports in a given year.ā€ Emphasis added. Itā€™s a sports award invented by and given out by a sports network and you canā€™t figure out why being (or having been) a sports-related person is a criteria? ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/71 "2015-06-04T17:19:23Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > ā€¦ > Itā€™s a sports award invented by and given out by a sports network and you canā€™t figure out why being (or having been) a sports-related person is a criteria? Noah Galloway is a personal trainer, competes in Mudder and Crossfit events. What team did Nelson Mandela (2009) play for? ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/72 "2015-06-04T17:51:30Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > Noah Galloway is a personal trainer, competes in Mudder and Crossfit events. > What team did Nelson Mandela (2009) play for? I donā€™t think he played for anybody, but he did host the 1995 Rugby World Cup (and used the event as a way to unite South Africa behind their team - up until then blacks in SA rooted against the all-white SA teams), founded the Nelson Mandela Challenge in soccer, and hosted the 2010 FIFA World Cup. So not an athlete but definitely ā€œsports-relatedā€. I would argue that Noah Galloway has transcended his injury through sport, not transcended sport for a ā€œhumanitarian contributionā€. I get the sense that you think that we think Noahā€™s a bad guy or that weā€™re slighting his accomplishments here. That doesnā€™t appear to be the case. Itā€™s just that his accomplishments have nothing to do with this award. Would you give it to the guy who found the Higgs Boson if it turned out that he was a serious amateur cyclist? ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/73 "2015-06-04T18:52:27Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > ā€¦I get the sense that you think that we think Noahā€™s a bad guy or that weā€™re slighting his accomplishments here. ā€¦ As I get the same feeling about my comments on Jenner. I can very well accept that Caitlyn Jenner got this award. Itā€™s pretty damn easy to see. Jenner brings awareness to the struggles and accomplishment of LGBT people. Galloway brings awareness to the struggles and accomplishments of wounded soldiers. Both of them have used sports in some way to highlight these topics. I think that Galloway has shown more courage by not giving up and by pushing himself to excel in physically challenging sports. It took no small bit of courage for Jenner to make her decision but I still give Galloway the edge. My opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/74 "2015-06-04T20:20:03Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > I think that Galloway has shown more courage by not giving up and by pushing himself to excel in physically challenging sports. > It took no small bit of courage for Jenner to make her decision but I still give Galloway the edge. My opinion. The difference in courage, I think, is that nobodyā€™s rooting against Galloway or claiming that his actions are somehow ā€œwrong.ā€ ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/75 "2015-06-04T20:56:37Z")
Galloway also didnā€™t choose to have his limbs blown off in the way Jenner chose to have cosmetic surgery and a dress. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/76 "2015-06-04T21:26:28Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Galloway also didnā€™t choose to have his limbs blown off in the way Jenner chose to have cosmetic surgery and a dress. Or, alternatively, Galloway volunteered for military service, Jenner didnā€™t choose to have this disorder. Itā€™s silly, IMO, to compare who is ā€œmore courageousā€ when it comes to this. ESPN made a fully supportable choice, many people donā€™t agree with it, life goes on. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/77 "2015-06-05T02:27:30Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > A lot of handicapped people play sports. What makes Noah Gallagher more deserving than, say, [any of these guys](http://www.slantmagazine.com/assets/film/murderball.jpg)? Yeah, all Oasis ever did was steal from the Beatles. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/78 "2015-06-05T04:51:21Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Same here, and with other threads on this board. I dislike reality TV and celebrity culture in general, but many people watch it, and if itā€™s a way to get them to understand transgender issues the way this board has for me, then good for Caitlin Jenner on doing it. The issue is that many people think that those with gender issues are just seeking attention. Having this person from a family of attention whores trying to present a positive message might not make anyone more informed, it may just confirm their flawed opinions. ---
**Author:** ![Double\_Foolscap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85e7bf/32.png) [@Double\_Foolscap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Double_Foolscap)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/79 "2015-06-05T10:35:12Z")
> [@Honey](#): > > I believe **StillownedbySetters** is a woman. If he canā€™t be arsed to get the gender of Caitlyn Jenner right, why should we care about his gender identity? ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/80 "2015-06-05T21:38:09Z")
> [@Double\_Foolscap](#): > > If he canā€™t be arsed to get the gender of Caitlyn Jenner right, why should we care about his gender identity? He got the gender right. No amount of surgery will change the fact that Bruce Jenner is a male. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489.md?page=5)