# ESPN. Really? The Arthur Ashe award to Jenner? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 2, 2015, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489 "2015-06-02T23:36:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/121 "2015-06-10T15:22:37Z")
You can always find idiots saying all sorts of things. Leaving comments on message boards out of it, what has been the attitude of the mainstream media? That’s a better reflection of overall sentiment than isolated comments here and there or obscure subcultures. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/122 "2015-06-10T18:48:44Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Snooki is Chilean born, raised by Italians. And Kim K. is American-born, raised by Vultures. Ghu help me, she still reminds me of Snooki. ---
**Author:** ![jmh3110](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d2c977/32.png) [@jmh3110](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jmh3110)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2015, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/123 "2015-06-13T01:35:01Z")
lots of interesting takes here, [http://highplainsblogger.com/2015/06/11/espn-to-honor-caitlyn-jenner-for-what/](http://highplainsblogger.com/2015/06/11/espn-to-honor-caitlyn-jenner-for-what/) > **[Caitlyn Jenner and “Courage”](https://overthehillsports.wordpress.com/2015/06/09/caitlyn-jenner-and-courage/)** > > What is courage? By definition, courage is “the quality of mind or spirit that enables a person to face difficulty without fear.” Courage is standing up for what is right and allowing your heart to… [http://daddyice.mlblogs.com/2015/06/06/call-me-caitlyn/](http://daddyice.mlblogs.com/2015/06/06/call-me-caitlyn/) argue that she isn’t deserving while > **[Bravery](https://genyfeminist.wordpress.com/2015/06/04/bravery/)** > > The onslaught of dumbfuckery since Caitlyn Jenner made her debut to the world has surprised even me. I knew I’d see some unsavory content, being entrenched in one of the most conservative and… [http://college.usatoday.com/2015/06/04/caitlyn-jenner-transgender-equality/](http://college.usatoday.com/2015/06/04/caitlyn-jenner-transgender-equality/) > **[For When We Cannot Reference Webster’s: Defining Courage](https://scottmanze.wordpress.com/2015/06/04/for-when-we-cannot-reference-websters-defining-courage/)** > > There are different types of courage. When Caitlyn Jenner was announced as the cover model for an upcoming edition of Vanity Fair, there was shock and awe. When it was announced that Jenner would a… support ESPN’s decision. Personally I think Hill and Galloway were far better candidates and honoring Jenner is unfair to the likes of Mandela, Ali, and Dean Smith in the past. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2015, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/124 "2015-06-13T16:11:40Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > You can always find idiots saying all sorts of things. Leaving comments on message boards out of it, what has been the attitude of the mainstream media? That’s a better reflection of overall sentiment than isolated comments here and there or obscure subcultures. Okay, so in that way, she’s been accepted by most of the mainstream media, but not Fox, who have a disproportionate share due to being the only real conservative TV show, combined with their audience skewing older and thus watch TV more. That lines up with my observations. If you are conservative, you are likely to say nasty things. If you are moderate or liberal, you are much less likely. The same thing is also associated with age, albeit more loosely. Older people are more likely to be nasty than younger people. Only problem there is the 4chan generation that thinks being nasty has value in and of itself. Conservatives with a more libertarian lean are more likely to buck the trend, but, despite what some people here think, those are the exceptions. Most conservatives are social conservatives first. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2015, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/125 "2015-06-13T17:38:44Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Snooki is Chilean born, raised by Italians. The phrase “Armenian American Snooki” was meant to refer to Kim K. The poster was making a comment about her ethnicity not Snooki’s. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/126 "2015-06-19T04:39:14Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I agree he doesn’t come of as transphobic. More that there’s this guy he likes, and he doesn’t care if he doesn’t quite fit the requirements. And he doesn’t like Jenner. What’s wrong with not liking Jenner? ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/127 "2015-06-19T15:17:54Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > What’s wrong with not liking Jenner? It bucks the new tradition - the one that says if you don’t like somebody it must be because they are gay/transgender/black/Jewish,Mexican etc. We are no longer allowed to dislike someone simply because they are an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/128 "2015-06-19T15:48:05Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > It bucks the new tradition - the one that says if you don’t like somebody it must be because they are gay/transgender/black/Jewish,Mexican etc. The answer, as you likely know, is that the people who are complaining about Jenner do skew heavily towards the transphobic and probably wouldn’t give a rat’s ass who won this award otherwise, so unfortunately you’re tainted by your fellow travellers. Sorry. It must be terrible to be persecuted so. > [@](#): > > We are no longer allowed to dislike someone simply because they are an asshole. Is Jenner an asshole? ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/129 "2015-06-19T16:57:06Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > The answer, as you likely know, is that the people who are complaining about Jenner do skew heavily towards the transphobic and probably wouldn’t give a rat’s ass who won this award otherwise, so unfortunately you’re tainted by your fellow travellers. Sorry. It must be terrible to be persecuted so. I wouldn’t know anything about persecution. I’m just stating an opinion. But hey, if you want to go ahead and generalize people and paint them with a broad brush, knock yourself out. I’m all out of fucks to give about what you think. > [@](#): > > Is Jenner an asshole? I’m not sure but it’s quite possible. She appears to be wholeheartedly embracing the Kardashian battle plan of exploiting and monetizing their own hype. We can only hope that her bravery and that big fucking reality show check will get her through these tough times. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/130 "2015-06-19T18:41:49Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > I wouldn’t know anything about persecution. I’m just stating an opinion. But hey, if you want to go ahead and generalize people and paint them with a broad brush, knock yourself out. I’m all out of fucks to give about what you think. You were saying about generalizing people and painting them with a broad brush? > [@BubbaDog](#): > > There is a rush of some people here to declare anyone and everyone who doesn’t believe that Caitlyn Jenner is the spiffiest, most nifty, cool person in the world - must be a bigot. > [@BubbaDog](#): > > It bucks the new tradition - the one that says if you don’t like somebody it must be because they are gay/transgender/black/Jewish,Mexican etc. Looks like some pretty broad strokes to me. > [@](#): > > I’m not sure but it’s quite possible. She appears to be wholeheartedly embracing the Kardashian battle plan of exploiting and monetizing their own hype. We can only hope that her bravery and that big fucking reality show check will get her through these tough times. I’m hardly a fan of the clan or of reality television (or particularly of Jenner) and your opinion is your opinion. But the fact that she’s “monetizing her own hype” has little to do with her relative bravery in making a public transition. ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/131 "2015-06-19T19:24:10Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I’m hardly a fan of the clan or of reality television (or particularly of Jenner) and your opinion is your opinion. But the fact that she’s “monetizing her own hype” has little to do with her relative bravery in making a public transition. Monetizing the hype is obviously not the driving factor in her decision but you gotta admit pocketing a big wad of cash has some big selling points. How shy would you be if you had to walk down main street naked? Would $500,000 help you get over it? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2015, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/132 "2015-06-21T23:40:46Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > What’s wrong with not liking Jenner? I don’t believe I said there was anything wrong with it. Just that the guy seems to be at least partially making his decision on who he likes versus who he doesn’t. To tell the truth, my sole knowledge of Jenner is that she is the trans woman who was connected with the Kardasshians in some way. Reading the OP was the frist time I knew she was in sports. Neither reality shows nor sports are my thing, really. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2015, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/133 "2015-06-22T10:55:22Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > Monetizing the hype is obviously not the driving factor in her decision but you gotta admit pocketing a big wad of cash has some big selling points. > > How shy would you be if you had to walk down main street naked? Would $500,000 help you get over it? Walk down the street naked? Sure. Have major surgery and take hormonal treatments to begin transitioning to a woman? Ain’t enough money in the world for that.\* - This is not a dig at women in general. ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2015, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489/134 "2015-06-22T13:11:00Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Walk down the street naked? Sure. Have major surgery and take hormonal treatments to begin transitioning to a woman? Ain’t enough money in the world for that.\* > > - This is not a dig at women in general. You missed or ignored my point. There are thousands of people who make a brave step towards changing their sexual identity who don’t have their previous fame to help bolster their position nor do they have a big wad of cash waiting for them when they finish said transition. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/espn-really-the-arthur-ashe-award-to-jenner/721489.md?page=6)