# Esprix: Hypocrite, Asshole & also Gay **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 4, 2002, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esprix-hypocrite-asshole-also-gay/140443 "2002-12-04T15:13:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esprix-hypocrite-asshole-also-gay/140443/241 "2002-12-05T23:19:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Joe\_Cool \* > \*\*I wasn’t apologized to, since I wasn’t involved, so it’s not my business to accept or reject it. I’m simply pointing out that an apology that is only a formality, given in the sense of “ok, there. now move along…” doesn’t mean anything. > > I’m not trying to cause trouble or prolong the fight, only hoping that Esprix would offer as sincere an apology as he would demand from me or anyone else. \*\* A: In point, he appologized “to everyone”, which we would assume, would include you. If you weren’t offended by the remark (and thus attaching yourself outside of the group 'anyone who was offended"), then it’s really not your concern if the appology is sincere or not, now is it? B. in addition, the concept of ‘accepting the appology’, at least to me, includes the notion, that one accepts that the person appologizing is doing so sincerely, thus again, it really doesn’t matter if you include yourself in the group or not. YOu can ‘accept’ that he’s appologizing sincerely, or not, your choice. But if, as you claim, that you aren’t really involved in the issue at all, why on earth would you decide - that (1) his appology **wasn’t** sincere, and that (2), that it was important that you point out your opinion? I see that as an inconsistency. If one doesn’t care about the fight, then why would one bother commenting on the particulars? ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esprix-hypocrite-asshole-also-gay/140443/242 "2002-12-05T23:40:52Z")
JOE COOL – > [@](#): > > I wasn’t apologized to, since I wasn’t involved, so it’s not my business to accept or reject it. And so you’re commenting on it why? > [@](#): > > I’m simply pointing out that an apology that is only a formality, given in the sense of “ok, there. now move along…” doesn’t mean anything. No, you’re not “simply” doing that, you’re “simply” decreeing that ESPRIX’s apologiy was of this insincere variety – even though no one else seems to have thought so and even though no one died and made you Arbiter of Apologies. > [@](#): > > I’m not trying to cause trouble or prolong the fight, only hoping that Esprix would offer as sincere an apology as he would demand from me or anyone else. Gosh, for someone who’s not _trying_ to cause trouble or prolong the fight, you’re doing a dandy job of both. At this point, I am only hoping you’ll stop taking it upon yourself to judge the sincerity of an apology that you rightly admit was not even directed at you. ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esprix-hypocrite-asshole-also-gay/140443/243 "2002-12-05T23:50:12Z")
**Joe\_Cool** , I really don’t understand why you are such a nasty and mean-spirited person. I just wish you would keep it to yourself. You seem to be contributing little here other than creating an atmosphere of hate. And it seems clear that Esprix has more class in his little gay pinkie than you have in your whole warped Christian “tough guy” overblown ego. ---
**Author:** ![howard.t](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cab0a1/32.png) [@howard.t](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/howard.t)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2002, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esprix-hypocrite-asshole-also-gay/140443/244 "2002-12-06T00:03:45Z")
Originally posted by istara Ace . Eg: “You are smelly, ugly - and also stupid.” vs “You are smelly, ugly - and also black.” Can’t you see the problem with this statement? It reads like the third word is intended to be an insult, whether you meant it to be or not. If someone called me “smelly,ugly and white/straight” I would not be insulted by the word white, similarly I would not be insulted by the word straight. So why do some Gay people feel it is an insult by being called Gay? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2002, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esprix-hypocrite-asshole-also-gay/140443/245 "2002-12-06T00:35:50Z")
Look at what you’r arguing about. Ace said “gay” in a way that was **maybe** insulting and esprix said to get sodomized, it would do him good. You people are going on for days, psychoanalying the incident, deconstucting the diction, assigning blame, calling each other bigots, and whining about oppression and reverse discrimination. And you’re doing this over **diction** I just read in MPSIMS about a 6 year old girl who’s dying. Why not type something funny, debate constructively, answer a question in GD… …Or go experience the grace and pain of a parent who’s losing his child. ---
**Author:** ![d\_redguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5fc32e/32.png) [@d\_redguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/d_redguy)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2002, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esprix-hypocrite-asshole-also-gay/140443/246 "2002-12-06T00:42:54Z")
> [@](#): > > For everyone’s information, this issue is also being discussed privately between Ace and me via e-mail. I plan on not posting to this thread again. > > Esprix Sounds like they’re making a date…😉 ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2002, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esprix-hypocrite-asshole-also-gay/140443/247 "2002-12-06T00:46:14Z")
Oh, for fuck’s sake. **Howard** , piss off and read the entire thread before posting, there’s a good boy. And **Joe Cool** , you once again manage to show about the most piss-poor witness imaginable. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2002, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esprix-hypocrite-asshole-also-gay/140443/248 "2002-12-06T00:47:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jodi \* > **And so you’re commenting on it why?** Gosh, I guess that would be for the same reason Esprix felt the need to pipe up in threads directed at me, which did not directly concern him: Because I didn’t see the word “PRIVATE” on the door when I came in. Lest you forget where this is taking place, I suggest you take a gander at the top of the window where you’re reading this. That’s right, Jodi, the one that starts with http://. That is called a Uniform (sometimes Universal) resource locator. That, together with the fact that I am not using the Chicago Reader’s private intranet to read this, indicates that this is a PUBLIC FORUM. And that, dear lady, in turn means that anybody is free to comment on anything that is posted. This, not surprisingly, is the nature of public message boards. Bottom line here is that, as several people have said to me, if you’re going to comment publicly, your words become public record, and are then fair game for others to find inconsistencies and hypocrisies. Esprix is fond of jumping right into every thread that attacks me, and pouncing on every perceived offense in everything I write, so I reserve the right to hold him to the same standards he expects from everyone else. > [@](#): > > \*\*No, you’re not “simply” doing that, you’re “simply” decreeing that ESPRIX’s apologiy was of this insincere variety – _even though no one else seems to have thought so_ I don’t know about you, Jodi, but I quit modifying my opinions based on what everyone else thinks back around 4th grade. I use my own judgment and form my own opinions. My opinion is that, in my judgment, Esprix’s apology was insincere and given only because of public pressure to do so. > [@](#): > > **and even though no one died and made you Arbiter of Apologies. > … > At this point, I am only hoping you’ll stop taking it upon yourself to judge the sincerity of an apology that you rightly admit was not even directed at you.** Well, as **wring** pointed out, I am, in fact, a recipient of the apology in question, due to the fact that I found the insult offensive. So as one of “everyone” to whom the apology is directed, I choose to reject it on grounds of insincerity. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by leander \* > **Joe\_Cool, I really don’t understand why you are such a nasty and mean-spirited person. I just wish you would keep it to yourself. You seem to be contributing little here other than creating an atmosphere of hate.** Please show me how my words were hateful, nasty, or mean-spirited. I said nothing of the sort. All I said is that I don’t buy the apology. And as I covered above, > [@](#): > > **And it seems clear that Esprix has more class in his little gay pinkie than you have in your whole warped Christian “tough guy” overblown ego.** I might be willing to believe that statement, if only he had retracted and apologized for his insult right off the bat, rather than spending the first 3 1/2 pages reaffirming that he most certainly meant the offense. When I’ve been shown that I’m wrong, I apologize and make no bones about it. **gobear** , however much we disagree and fight on this board, is quick to apologize once he is convinced that he was in the wrong. Neither of us is ever bullied into a forced, insincere apology. Esprix, by conrast, fought tooth and nail to protect his right to cast offensive insults, until he saw that he was hurting his own “public image”, at which time he offered a bland “ok, whatever” style apology. I hope you see the difference. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2002, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esprix-hypocrite-asshole-also-gay/140443/249 "2002-12-06T00:54:15Z")
Ok, so you now admit that the appology was directed at you, eh? then once again, you have the choice I outlined. You’ve chosen to reject an appology based on your assumption that it wasn’t sincere. Well, interesting, since we only have people’s typed words on the screen to judge. so, tell me, what exactly would it take to convince you? you seem to base your assumption of his **current** state of mind on his **past** postings. the words were certainly sufficient, you deemed them ‘less than sincere’, because of what he’d said before. what, pray tell, **could** he have said? or are you expecting a four page appology? Or are you claiming clairvoyance, able to discern his true meaning even though his words are unambiguous? ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2002, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esprix-hypocrite-asshole-also-gay/140443/250 "2002-12-06T00:58:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by andros \* > \*\*And **Joe Cool** , you once again manage to show about the most piss-poor witness imaginable. \*\* And why is that? Because good little Christians are supposed to just accept everything and say everybody is happy and nice? I don’t think so. He needs to hold himself to the same standard he requires of everyone else. Period. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2002, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esprix-hypocrite-asshole-also-gay/140443/251 "2002-12-06T01:12:11Z")
no, because **smart** people, **kind** people know better than to stir up shit. Look at it this way: option 1. the appology was insincere. You decline to accept, ducky for you, but doesn’t change a damn thing. Some one who issues an insincere appology isn’t likely to give a shit that some one else declines to accept it, **and** in this venue, the specific post of “I don’t believe that it’s sincere” does nothing but stir up shit again, especially at a point where the rest of the participants (as was happening here) were busy singing kumbaya, and roasting marshmallows. Your post was akin to trying to light a dying fire. option two - the apology was sincere - you decline to accept and you end up looking like a snide jerk. Perhaps this doesn’t bother you, since you seem assured that you really know other people’s hearts and minds, but hell, to each his own. once again, the decision to publically decline the appology does indeed make you look like a jerk. option three - the appology was sincere and you accept - everybody joins hands around the fire and makes 'smores and in general is happy. option four, the appology is insincere and you accept it anyhow **or at least don’t specifically post ‘I know it’s insincere’** the whole mess dies down, we all sing around the fire and you keep an eye out on the insincere one, smug in your knowledge that you were right and absolutely everyone else is wrong. (think young Indiana Jones in the Last Crusade when he comments ‘everybodies lost but me’ ) See, I don’t see the point in option one or two. and since you’ve already demonstrated that you can in fact change your mind (reference your above comment > [@](#): > > I wasn’t apologized to, since I wasn’t involved, so it’s not my business to accept or reject it. to this > [@](#): > > I am, in fact, a recipient of the apology in question, due to the fact that I found the insult offensive. So as one of “everyone” to whom the apology is directed, I choose to reject it on grounds of insincerity. why don’t you dwell on “is it a good and kind thing to stir up shit that’s already settled or about to be”? Ok?? thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Truth\_Seeker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5fc32e/32.png) [@Truth\_Seeker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truth_Seeker)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2002, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esprix-hypocrite-asshole-also-gay/140443/252 "2002-12-06T01:17:30Z")
**Joe** , there’s more than one kind of sincere apology. There’s “I don’t know what came over me. I would never have done something like that in my right mind. Please forgive me.” There’s “I would never have done that if I had known X, Y and Z. Please forgive me.” There’s “Lots of people whose opinion I value are offended and think I screwed up. I really didn’t mean to offend these people and I’m sorry I did. Please forgive me.” This isn’t the same as “The teacher made me do it.” It’s not like a mod threatened him with banning unless he apologized. It appears his apology also includes, “It seems to me that these people are over-reacting. However, as many of the people who were offended are pretty thoughtful and reasonable, maybe I’d better have some respect for their opinion.” In sum, you are demanding that **Esprix** recognize and admit the error of his ways before accepting his apology. However, it is often more sincere and meaningful for someone to tender an apology even if they think they are “right.” If **Esprix** “takes one for the team” and backs down even when he thinks he is right because he believes defending himself wouldn’t be worth it in terms of damage inflicted on others, he gets more points in my book, not less. So, **Joe** , let’s give this particular conflict a rest. If you keep trying to stir this up, we’re gonna tie you and **Hastur** into a sack together and leave you to it. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2002, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esprix-hypocrite-asshole-also-gay/140443/253 "2002-12-06T01:25:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Truth Seeker \* > \*\*So, **Joe** , let’s give this particular conflict a rest. If you keep trying to stir this up, we’re gonna tie you and **Hastur** into a sack together and leave you to it. \*\* Wouldn’t work. Hastur already said he’s a bottom, and I’m straight. How boring would that be? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2002, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esprix-hypocrite-asshole-also-gay/140443/254 "2002-12-06T01:27:21Z")
JOE COOL – > [@](#): > > Gosh, I guess that would be for the same reason Esprix felt the need to pipe up in threads directed at me, which did not directly concern him . . . Ah, so it’s tit for tat, is it? You behave badly because you think he does? Personally, I consider that trolling, and that’s not a term I just throw around. Let me clarify how it looks to people who don’t know whatever bitter little grudge you’re nursing: He apologized, you dropped by to totally without grounds and without provocation declare his apology to be insincere. This makes you look like a jerk. A _big_ jerk. And don’t turn your vituperaton on me just because you’re apparently having a bad day. You’re acting like an vindictive little stalker and I’m telling you so – which I am fully entitled to do because this is a _public message board_. And thank you for clearing up the myster of “http:” for me – allow me to return the favor: The part of your body you’re currently sitting on is your ass, and the joint half way down your arm is your elbow. > [@](#): > > Bottom line here is that, as several people have said to me, if you’re going to comment publicly, your words become public record, and are then fair game for others to find inconsistencies and hypocrisies. Esprix is fond of jumping right into every thread that attacks me, and pouncing on every perceived offense in everything I write, so I reserve the right to hold him to the same standards he expects from everyone else. You can do whatever you like, as we both know. But if you perceive bad behavior on SPREE’s part and you resolve to act the same way, do not be surprised that people who do not know that history – or do not care about it – see only _you_ behaving badly. > [@](#): > > I don’t know about you, Jodi, but I quit modifying my opinions based on what everyone else thinks back around 4th grade. I use my own judgment and form my own opinions. My opinion is that, in my judgment, Esprix’s apology was insincere and given only because of public pressure to do so. You are of course entitled to your opinion. In the absence of any reasonable grounds to have so concluded however, I am entitled to decide you are acting like a vindictive grudge-bearing boor. And no, I have not stopped at least considering the moderation of my behavior based on the opinions of others – because they very often can tell me when I’m behaving badly and/or irrationally. Though I may after thinking it through disagree, I’m not so full of myself as to reject such opinions out of hand. > [@](#): > > Well, as wring pointed out, I am, in fact, a recipient of the apology in question, due to the fact that I found the insult offensive. So as one of “everyone” to whom the apology is directe, I choose to reject it on grounds of insincerity. You yourself said it was not directed at you, which it wasn’t. If you’re going to take WRING’s opinion – as I hearily suggest – you might notice that she also thinks you’re out of line. Personally I think it takes balls of solid brass to take it upon yourself to “reject” an apology that you have freely acknowledged wasn’t even directed you. You’re acting like a jerk, and your basis is some little pissing contest you’re in with ESPRIX. The fact that this is a public forum doesn’t mean you have to weigh in on every discussion, regardless of whether it concerns you, and _especially_ when you’ve taken it upon yourself to just the sincerity of someone else. To do so makes you a jerk, and to then explain your behavior in terms of getting back at him makes you a _big_ jerk. That’s my opinion, which I’m entitled to here at this public forum, and allow me to assure you I _sincerely_ mean it. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2002, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esprix-hypocrite-asshole-also-gay/140443/255 "2002-12-06T01:45:54Z")
**Joe** : > [@](#): > > And why is that? Because good little Christians are supposed to just accept everything and say everybody is happy and nice? I don’t think so. **Jodi** just nailed it when she said “You behave badly because you think he does?” ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2002, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esprix-hypocrite-asshole-also-gay/140443/256 "2002-12-06T02:06:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Joe\_Cool \* > \*\*Wouldn’t work. Hastur already said he’s a bottom, and I’m straight. How boring would that be? > > 😉 \*\* And you assume that I wouldn’t be revolted by the simple concept alone. ---
**Author:** ![Blackeyes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f6c823/32.png) [@Blackeyes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackeyes)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2002, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esprix-hypocrite-asshole-also-gay/140443/257 "2002-12-06T02:09:00Z")
Esprix’s right! Ace is an Ass! ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2002, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esprix-hypocrite-asshole-also-gay/140443/258 "2002-12-06T02:09:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diane \* > \*\*Oh I am so tempted to suggest that a certain someone needs a certain something up his certain somewhere. > > :::cough-Hastur-cough::: > > But I won’t \*\* And coming from you, that is quite the amazingly hypocritical statement. Oh wait. You need something OUT of there, and hope that there isn’t massive splintering in the extraction process. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2002, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esprix-hypocrite-asshole-also-gay/140443/259 "2002-12-06T02:12:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*You should look up the word “apologist.” It means " one who speaks or writes **in defense of** someone or something," and doe not mean “to apologize.” I speak up in defense of what I believe in, in this case, that we should never give creatures like **Ace** the chance to play the victim or to garner sympathy. If you don’t like my posts, too bad. I post as I see fit and nobody–not you nor any other poster–will tell me how to think or write. In any event, with your posting history, you are in no position to criticize anyone else as “Kirkland-lite.” > > And yes, **Esprix** is a great guy and an awesome poster, but he is not infallible. \*\* On the other hand, my posting style changed for the better and became less vitrolic. You went for far more vitriol and hellfire. I do not think you are the one to give me or any other posters etiquette lessons. Post as you see fit. But on the level that you think I want to see a cite. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ace_of_Swords)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2002, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esprix-hypocrite-asshole-also-gay/140443/260 "2002-12-06T02:15:03Z")
Folks, the sincerity of the apology is precisely what Esprix and I are discussing in private E-mail. If anyone takes further offense, or is unsatisfied with the apology, it’ll be me, and I’ll take whatever steps necessary. Since I haven’t made public any complaints, it might be time for us to all drop the subject. Besides, go make a snow angel – y’all are too serious. -Ace [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esprix-hypocrite-asshole-also-gay/140443.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esprix-hypocrite-asshole-also-gay/140443.md?page=14)