# Esprix, tilting at strawmen again **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 25, 2003, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esprix-tilting-at-strawmen-again/215155 "2003-11-25T08:03:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esprix-tilting-at-strawmen-again/215155/1 "2003-11-25T08:03:56Z")
For some time now, Esprix has been following me around, sniping at me and pathetically begging for attention. I guess he’s getting what he wants. In [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=221449), lissener asked how the SDMB has affected people’s thinking on gay issues. I replied that this board is intolerant of views not in line with anything other than a rather left-wing point of view, and that people have responded to my views by such dishonest tactics as misrepresenting my position. And Esprix responds by (what else?) misrepresenting my position, claiming that I believe that bisexuals are pedophiles. This just reinforces my point about this board: Esprix simply makes up positions for me, and no one else calls him on it. Apparently believing the “right” thing is more important than being honest. ---
**Author:** ![MrVisible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@MrVisible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrVisible)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esprix-tilting-at-strawmen-again/215155/2 "2003-11-25T08:33:55Z")
If anyone, anywhere, could make out what the hell you think about anything, you’d have a believable point. As it stands, everything you say is lost in a pea-soup fog of semantical gymnastics and hallucinatory obfuscation. You’re the least comprehensible being on the planet, and that includes dolphins and primitive AI routines. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esprix-tilting-at-strawmen-again/215155/3 "2003-11-25T08:50:15Z")
Well, that thread was interesting. :rolleyes: If you’re arguing some position, **The Ryan** , I can’t tell what it is. Your schtick has been done before, BTW: > [@](#): > > Humpty Dumpty took the book, and looked at it very carefully. “That seems to be done right—” he began. > > “You’re holding it upside down!” Alice interrupted. > > “To be sure I was!” Humpty Dumpty said gaily, as she turned it round for him. “I thought it looked a little queer. As I was saying, that seems to be done right–though I haven’t time to look it over thoroughly just now–and that shows that there are three hundred and sixty-four days when you get un-birthday presents—” > > “Certainly,” said Alice. > > “And only one for birthday presents, you know, There’s glory for you!” > > "I don’t know what you mean by ‘glory,’ " Alice said. > > Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. "Of course you don’t–till I tell you. I meant “there’s a nice knock-down argument for you!” > > "But ‘glory’ doesn’t mean “a nice knock-down argument,” Alice objected. > > “When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said in a rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean–neither more nor less. > > “The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean different things.” > > “The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master–that’s all.” > > Alice was too much puzzled to say anything, so after a minute Humpty Dumpty began again. “They’ve a temper, some of them–particularly verbs, they’re the proudest–adjectives you can do anything with, but not verbs–however, I can manage the whole lot! Impenetrability! That’s what I say!” > > “Would you tell me, please,” said Alice, “what that means ?” > > “Now you talk like a reasonable child,” said Humpty Dumpty, looking very much pleased. "I meant by “impenetrability’ that we’ve had enough of that subject, and it would be just as well if you’d mention what you meant to do next, as I suppose you don’t intend to stop here all the rest of your life.” > > “That’s a great deal to make one word mean,” Alice said in a thoughtful tone. > > “When I make a word do a lot of work like that,” said Humpty Dumpty, “I always pay it extra.” > > “Oh!” said Alice. She was too much puzzled to make any other remark. > > “Ah, you should see 'em come round me of a Saturday night,” Humpty Dumpty went on, wagging his head gravely from side to side: “for to get their wages, you know.” > > (Alice didn’t venture to ask what he paid them with; and so you see I can’t tell you.) But Lewis Carroll was a bit funnier than you are. ---
**Author:** ![mrsam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5ac83/32.png) [@mrsam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mrsam)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esprix-tilting-at-strawmen-again/215155/4 "2003-11-25T08:56:52Z")
Esprix seems to have captured your logic perfectly on the second page to me. You pretend to be holding some tenable position by never actually stating your position, merely referring to some mystical important concept you understand which we don’t. If you have something important to say about homosexuality/paedophilia, say it here and now. Tell us your position clearly so we can’t misunderstand you. It seems to me that you are the one “pathetically begging for attention”. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esprix-tilting-at-strawmen-again/215155/5 "2003-11-25T08:58:09Z")
> [@](#): > > I replied that this board is intolerant of views not in line with anything other than a rather left-wing point of view Okay, let’s try a little experiment. If I punch someone in the arm do they: A: Tell me to stop because it hurts. or B: Say that it hurts because they want me to stop. Show your work. Second question… If I call someone a bad name, do they… A: Ask me to stop because they find it offensive. or B: Say that it’s offensive because they want me to stop. Again, show your work. (We really should make The Ryan take this test before every post he makes, and only allow his post to go through if he can answer both questions correctly) ---
**Author:** ![Who\_me\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/958977/32.png) [@Who\_me\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Who_me_1)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esprix-tilting-at-strawmen-again/215155/6 "2003-11-25T12:17:23Z")
That wouldn’t be fair… he’d never be able to post again. Hmmmm… maybe you have a point… ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esprix-tilting-at-strawmen-again/215155/7 "2003-11-25T15:54:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Who\_me? \* > \*\*That wouldn’t be fair… he’d never be able to post again. > > Hmmmm… maybe you have a point… \*\* Are you talking about **The Ryan** or **“The Ryan”**? There IS a distinction.😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esprix-tilting-at-strawmen-again/215155/8 "2003-11-25T16:03:08Z")
So, **Esprix** is cooking meat on Friday?😕 ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esprix-tilting-at-strawmen-again/215155/9 "2003-11-25T16:13:08Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by The Ryan_ > **In [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=221449), lissener asked how the SDMB has affected people’s thinking on gay issues. I replied that this board is intolerant of views not in line with anything other than a rather left-wing point of view, and that people have responded to my views by such dishonest tactics as misrepresenting my position.** Are you sure that’s what you said? > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by The Ryan in his linked thread_ > **I have found the SDMB to be rather inhospitable to any viewpoint not in line with the “gay rights” position.** I’m quite sure there’s a bit of a difference between the “gay rights” and “left-wing” points of view. There may be some overlapping, but that’s to be expected. And by the way, you’re the one who brought up pedophilia in the other thread, not **Esprix**. Kind of hard to get on your side when you make such an ass of yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esprix-tilting-at-strawmen-again/215155/10 "2003-11-25T16:14:44Z")
I assume you are commenting about this statement by Esprix > [@](#): > > But we all already know your thought process: > > Children can be either gender > Pedophiles are attracted to children of either gender > Attraction to either gender means they are bisexual > > By that argument, all bisexuals are pedophiles. The final statement of that quote does not logically follow. The statement “pedophiles are bisexual” does not suggest “bisexuals are pedophiles” in the slightest. Most serial killers are white males, but that doesn’t make most white males serial killers. I do not know if you have personally made that connection in the past, and Esprix is just restating your previous posts, or if he has just misunderstood you and assumed that last statement. Your posts are often difficult to read so it wouldn’t surprise me if you were just misunderstood despite an honest effort to get your drift. It also wouldn’t surprise me if Esprix was just a bit sensitive to any sort of connection to pedophilia. Too often in the past homosexuality was equated with pedophilia, so one can appreciate his feelings on this. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esprix-tilting-at-strawmen-again/215155/11 "2003-11-25T16:22:37Z")
**The Ryan,** In using a term like pedophilia, which has a concrete, clinical definition, it might be helpful to look at that definition. [Here](http://www.geocities.com/morrison94/Sexual.htm#Pedo) is one from the DSM-IV, which outlines the clinical definition of pedophilia. There are indeed subsets of pedophilia, which allow the clinician to add whether the pedophile is sexually attracted to males, females, or both. Now, those should not be confused with homosexuality. The fact that a male pedophile has a sexual attraction to males does not make him homosexual, it makes him a pedophile with an attraction to males. Now, I hate to argue semantics with you, but I’m hoping you can understand better now what **Esprix** may have been trying to say. That a pedophile is a pedophile, a homosexual is a homosexual. With that in mind, can you understand why there seems to be a problem with your communication in this area? ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esprix-tilting-at-strawmen-again/215155/12 "2003-11-25T16:36:25Z")
What a perfect description of The Ryan. ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esprix-tilting-at-strawmen-again/215155/13 "2003-11-25T17:08:51Z")
**The Ryan** , I can sympathize with you about Esprix. However, it is also true that your posting style tends to be very terse and precise, and this frequently makes it hard for people to figure out what you mean. In general, I have found that most Pit threads of this sort are nothing more than popularity contests, in which people’s opinions about the posters involved counts more than a judgment of the particular situation at hand. (You may notice this in some of the posts to this thread). ---
**Author:** ![MrVisible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@MrVisible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrVisible)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esprix-tilting-at-strawmen-again/215155/14 "2003-11-25T17:47:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by IzzyR \* > **The Ryan** , > > I can sympathize with you about Esprix. However, it is also true that your posting style tends to be very terse and precise, and this frequently makes it hard for people to figure out what you mean. Only in a **The Ryan** thread could the words ‘terse’ and ‘precise’ be used as synonyms for ‘babblative’ and ‘insanely vague’. > [@](#): > > In general, I have found that most Pit threads of this sort are nothing more than popularity contests, in which people’s opinions about the posters involved counts more than a judgment of the particular situation at hand. (You may notice this in some of the posts to this thread). You may also find that posters here become more popular as they post rational, coherent arguments, instead of bizarre screeds on how we need to interpret their previous unintelligible posts. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esprix-tilting-at-strawmen-again/215155/15 "2003-11-25T20:54:51Z")
Pitted by **The Ryan**. Will wonders never cease? To all who comprehend English and have posted in here as such, thank you. A special thank you to **Hamlet** for a rather tidy summation. (And **IzzyR** , I don’t know what your gripe is, but whatever.) But I cannot let this gross misrepresentation of my position and personage go unchallenged: > [@](#): > > For some time now, Esprix has been following me around, sniping at me and pathetically begging for attention. **The Ryan** , if you do not retract this bold-faced lie immediately I will call out the National Guard, stamp my foot - _repeatedly_ - and notify **Cecil** himself. Your dishonesty and strawman tactics are reprehensible. A duel, sir! A duel is called for! Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esprix-tilting-at-strawmen-again/215155/16 "2003-11-25T23:21:21Z")
Somehow, I get the impression that **Esprix** doesn’t take **The Ryan** seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esprix-tilting-at-strawmen-again/215155/17 "2003-11-25T23:30:31Z")
Hey, look, **The Ryan** is blaming somebody else for his own incomprehensible bullshit. “Six bells and all’s well.” _–flips over hourglass–_ Somebody ping me if I don’t notice the next time it happens. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esprix-tilting-at-strawmen-again/215155/18 "2003-11-26T00:04:41Z")
> [@](#): > > A duel, sir! A duel is called for! Pistols on the commons at dawn! I’ll be 'Sprix’s cheerleader! ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esprix-tilting-at-strawmen-again/215155/19 "2003-11-26T04:08:29Z")
**Cervaise** , I believe you can set up e-alerts with the new software upgrade. (Then again, do you really need all that mail in your inbox?) Esprix ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esprix-tilting-at-strawmen-again/215155/20 "2003-11-26T04:11:29Z")
Esprix does **not** “tilt” at straw “men”. (he’s a top;) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/esprix-tilting-at-strawmen-again/215155.md?page=2)