# Estilicon, you punk, I'm calling you out. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 11, 2003, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/estilicon-you-punk-im-calling-you-out/154376 "2003-02-11T17:03:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/estilicon-you-punk-im-calling-you-out/154376/41 "2003-02-12T15:22:23Z")
Monty, you’re an intelligent guy but you _do_ have a not entirely undeserved rep for going “Barney Fife” over perceived slights or insults, even fairly minor ones. Chill. ---
**Author:** ![THespos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@THespos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/THespos)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/estilicon-you-punk-im-calling-you-out/154376/42 "2003-02-12T16:43:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by vanilla \* > \*\*You stole my line!!! > > Anyway, though, its now been moved to Green. \*\* Does this mean I have to take my plastic wrap and duct tape back to the Home Depot? Or should I keep it around in case of future conniptions? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ace_of_Swords)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/estilicon-you-punk-im-calling-you-out/154376/43 "2003-02-12T19:00:02Z")
OK, I read through the thread evidence: From Fuck War, Estilicon and a _half-dozen_ others chastise you for being belligerent and deliberately misreading the OP. Maybe that one was your fault? From the “We are happy [the Space Shuttle] broke up.”, Estilicon on page 4 makes some untoward comments about carpet bombing, and a half-dozen people point it out. So the fuck what? Just where is your personal greivance? I don’t see anything in either of these threads that could possibly enable one to go apeshit over “Monty Alert.” Based on the evidence that you provide, I’m of the opinion that you need a fucking _lengthy_ chill-pill prescription. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/estilicon-you-punk-im-calling-you-out/154376/44 "2003-02-12T20:47:57Z")
I’ll deal with Estlicon first, then with Ace. Estilicon: I thank you for apologizing for the absolutely uncalled for swipe at me. I still think you are mistaken, and quite mistaken at that, in your appraisal of me. Fair enough; you, no doubt, feel that I’m mistaken, and quite mistaken at that, in my appraisal of you. The insult in the Shuttle thread was where I called you asshole. You might recall that you had accused the US of planning on carpet bombing Iraq. I felt at the time that using such a term to gain your attention was appropriate. Also, IMHO at the time, only an asshole would make such an accusation with zero proof. Since there is no plan on carpet bombing Iraq, it’d be kind of difficult to gather proof of there being one. At any rate, others asked you to provide proof of your assertion about the US planning on carpet bombing and you essentially said, “Well, they are therefore they are.” Ponder on how that kind of “proof” would be received by a judge or jury and then you’ll probably see where I, along with the others who asked you for proof of your assertion, are coming from on that particular issue. Ace: I did not, and I most emphatically repeat, undlerline, bold, and whatever else it will take for people to finally realize, misread–intentionally or otherwise–that thread’s OP. Or, just maybe, “this bit” in your lexicon means “all of what I’m not addressing although I’ve specifically stated that I’m only addressing a particular part.” What I was griping about was the absolutely uncalled for swipe at me in a thread in which I had said nothing to anyone (kind of easy for that to be the case since I didn’t make any post at all in that thread until after Estilicon’s comment). You might also note where that thread’s OP made a bit of a fib about the direct quote. Back to Estilicon: > [@](#): > > But Monty sometimes you are an asshole, you are too sensitive and you aren’t the nicest person to have a discussion with. Buy a thicker skin, grow a sense of humor and calm the fuck down. Take your own advice. You are too insensitive and sometimes are an asshole. And you certainlly aren’t the nicest person to have a discussion with. Buy a sense of decency, quit tossing out accusations against the US, and calm down. All of the foregoing is just my humble opinion. Take it or leave it. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/estilicon-you-punk-im-calling-you-out/154376/45 "2003-02-12T20:51:16Z")
One more for you Estilicon: Feel free to toss out valid accusations against the US. I’m all for that, especially for the numerous things the US has done wrong–not for the stuff people just imagine we’re going to do wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/estilicon-you-punk-im-calling-you-out/154376/46 "2003-02-12T21:05:40Z")
I’ll just briefly note that I find Estilicon’s English skills to be far above the average non-native-speaker level. Hell, his English is better than mine. Also, I’ll note Monty indeed is easy to anger. What else is new. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/estilicon-you-punk-im-calling-you-out/154376/47 "2003-02-12T21:18:17Z")
Certainly not Coldfire’s comment. You might want to note that I don’t like BS. I do think that’s what started this particular mess: the BS someone else spewed. ---
**Author:** ![THespos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@THespos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/THespos)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/estilicon-you-punk-im-calling-you-out/154376/48 "2003-02-12T21:28:21Z")
> [@](#): > > I did not, and I most emphatically repeat, undlerline, bold, and whatever else it will take for people to finally realize, misread–intentionally or otherwise–that thread’s OP. Nice sentence. Maybe you didn’t “misread” it, but you did misunderstand the OP in the “Fuck War” thread. **SwimmingRiddles** (the OPer) made that abundantly clear. Despite the fact that several Dopers (myself included) took the time to explain to you that you misinterpreted what **SwimmingRiddles** was saying, you kept insisting that your interpretation of what she wrote gave you the right to be pissed off. Most people would simply post something to the effect of, “Gee, Swiddles, thanks for the clarification. I’m sorry.” Instead, you chose to be unnecessarily argumentative. Now **Estilicon** takes a minor (and deserved, IMHO) swipe at you in another thread and you drag him into the Pit for it? What happens when someone drops a dish at your place, **Monty**? Automatic weapons fire? Sheesh… ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/estilicon-you-punk-im-calling-you-out/154376/49 "2003-02-12T21:31:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\*Certainly not Coldfire’s comment. You might want to note that I don’t like BS. I do think that’s what started this particular mess: the BS someone else spewed. \*\* You sure seem to like your own BS though. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/estilicon-you-punk-im-calling-you-out/154376/50 "2003-02-12T21:34:42Z")
here’s a thought **Monty** , for what it’s worth. I think you’d agree that the statement “ **Monty** rarely starts Pit threads” wouldn’t be true, right? and certainly, in some, people have suggested to you that you’re over-reacting or the material was not quite pit material. Obviousy you didn’t agree, or you’d not have started the thread. However, in this thread,at this point, you’re responsible for 1/3 (about 33%) of the posts in this thread, most of them spent defending or explaining your position. I’d suggest that’s not a good average. If you find yourself to be the majority poster in a pit thread you sponsored, and mostly defending or explaining your position, that you’re not getting a lot of support for your position - it _may just be_ that you’re over-reacting. I’m not suggesting that it’s all a popularity thing or whatever. But if the case were so clear cut as you seem to think it is, surely, wouldn’t **some** others be posting support? It’s just something I"ve noticed. use as you see fit. ---
**Author:** ![Estilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Estilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Estilicon)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/estilicon-you-punk-im-calling-you-out/154376/51 "2003-02-12T22:00:35Z")
For the record I didn’t say “carpet bombing” but “saturation bombardment”. Don’t put words in my mouth: > [@](#): > > I can’t believe the idiocy of this whole paragraph. My friend war is the ultimate coercion. 3.000 innocent people died on 9-11? Yes. I can assure you that Osama wanted to kill at least 173.000 thousands. Unfortunatelly the 8th air fleet was unavailable and he had to use a couple of jumbos. I can’t believe your stupidity, you are about to use “saturation bombardments” in Irak and you are complaining about the terrorists. Again they would be more than happy to use your modern weapons, unfortunately (for you) they don’t have it so they have to use a cruder method depriving you of your honor. After all it’s not the same when 11 dirty arabs murder civilians than when 2 “knights in shining armour” (pilots) do the same. The idea of this whole paragraph was to say that if Osama have had the planes with which you destroyed Dresden, he would have been more than happy to use them. He hadn’t. I was shocked by the news of the Columbia disaster, I was five or six years all in 1986 and I was shocked to, I was angry at the stupidity of some dopers of using the tragedy to advance their political views. I ended that post apologizing in advance for my outburst: > [@](#): > > I am sorry to you all, if you check my last post in this thread I was still in my senses. Today is a sad day not just for americans or israelis, the moment those 7 men and WOMEN left our frontier (the atmosphere) all those stupid labels like nationality, religion or race cease to have any meaning at all. They were envoys to the stars (sorry I am sci-fi geek), and they died in the most noble and important war, the war to acquire knowledge, to fight ignorance. It is shamefull that a thread like this exists in place that claims to be fighting it. Those 7 were casualties in a fight that someday we will win. > Socrates identified virtue with knowledge, for him all evil comes from ignorance. The consequence: a wise man will never do wrong. I know that many philosophers have argued that Socrates is mistaken, that things are more complicated than that. I don’t care, some chooses to believe that bread and wine turns into the blood and flesh of christ, some that they are the chosen people. I believe in this and for that those 7 are martyrs of my faith and this thread a heresy. I hope a moderator realizes this and burn it to cinders. > > “En vano, pues soy espíritu, > Darás, muerte, el golpe fiero; > Espíritu es Dios, y espero > Que en su seno he de vivir”. > > Silvio Pellico (Italy 1789-1854) > > (I couldn’t find better words, I apologize). I was shocked and angered and still I said “saturation bombardment” and not “carpet bombing”. The first expression was used the day before the tragedy in an argentinian radio to describe the “shock and awe” bombing campaign you are suppose to use in Irak. I won’t apologize for this one Monty, I will someday if you invade Irak and after using your “smart bombs” (I hope the man that coined the name wasn’t the same one behind C.I.A) your secretary of defense starts giving us lectures about “collateral damage”. ---
**Author:** ![Estilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Estilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Estilicon)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/estilicon-you-punk-im-calling-you-out/154376/52 "2003-02-12T22:04:30Z")
Your secretary of defense doesn’t start giving us… I was clumsy if anybody is annoyed at me… well there isn’t a better place to protest 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/estilicon-you-punk-im-calling-you-out/154376/53 "2003-02-12T22:29:54Z")
You lie, THespos. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/estilicon-you-punk-im-calling-you-out/154376/54 "2003-02-12T22:43:05Z")
I never said it was clear-cut, wring. Plus there are those who like the pile-on syndrome. Also, since I am anal about some things and I did feel moved to do it, it is true that I rarely start pit threads, given that out of the first 20 pages of threads on the Pit, I’ve started a grand total of three. Use as you see fit. CB: I don’t consider what I posted to be BS. Obviously you don’t concur. I don’t care if you concur or not. At any rate, I did get an answer from Estilicon and I think that’s pretty much what I was going for. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/estilicon-you-punk-im-calling-you-out/154376/55 "2003-02-12T22:45:41Z")
well, I tried. ::shrug:: ---
**Author:** ![THespos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@THespos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/THespos)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/estilicon-you-punk-im-calling-you-out/154376/56 "2003-02-12T22:49:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\*You lie, THespos. \*\* Little help here? What specific comments did I make that you construed as a lie? You can’t just make a comment like that without any degree of specificity. ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/estilicon-you-punk-im-calling-you-out/154376/57 "2003-02-12T22:51:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\* > > CB: I don’t consider what I posted to be BS. Obviously you don’t concur. I don’t care if you concur or not. > > At any rate, I did get an answer from Estilicon and I think that’s pretty much what I was going for. \*\* Is that like divide and concur or something? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/estilicon-you-punk-im-calling-you-out/154376/58 "2003-02-13T01:30:06Z")
Gee, THespos, since you expect me to be a mind reader, isn’t it acceptable for me to expect the same of you? The specific comment of yours I consider to be a lie is the comment that I deserved the swipe “monty alert” in the thread I hadn’t even participated in. ---
**Author:** ![THespos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@THespos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/THespos)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/estilicon-you-punk-im-calling-you-out/154376/59 "2003-02-13T04:37:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > **Gee, THespos, since you expect me to be a mind reader, isn’t it acceptable for me to expect the same of you?** No one expects you to be a mind reader, **Monty**. In the “Fuck War” thread, you didn’t need to be. As I mentioned before, several posters pointed out that you were misinterpreting the OPers comments, yet you persisted in your argument. One doesn’t need to have supernatural mind reading powers to read a frickin’ post or two. > [@](#): > > \*\*The specific comment of yours I consider to be a lie is the comment that I deserved the swipe “monty alert” in the thread I hadn’t even participated in. \*\* When one is talking about matters of opinion, “lie” doesn’t apply. Did you happen to notice the little four-letter abbreviation I used right after the word “deserved?” It stands for “In My Humble Opinion.” Tell me you don’t like my opinions if you feel so inclined, but don’t accuse me of lying. Especially if you’re going to be reckless about specifying which of my comments you’re referring to. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/estilicon-you-punk-im-calling-you-out/154376/60 "2003-02-13T15:19:45Z")
Oh, I noticed you put “IMHO” after that, THespos. I just considered it to be quite disingenous of you. After all, how did I deserve it in that thread? What posting of mine in that thread occasioned it? What posting of mine in that thread shows that I deserved that remark? If it floats your boat, then, I amend my comment from “You lie” to “Your opinion is based on nothing; therefore, it’s worthless.” Also, I feel that it is you who are misinterpreting my comment in the thread you mentioned. I only addressed the remark I took offense at. Again, if it floats your boat, go ahead and pretend that I was addressing the entire OP of that thread although I specifically said I wasn’t. Go ahead. All that’s going to do is reinforce my view that your opinion is not only based on nothing but specifically based on that which is contrary to fact. Estilicon: You accuse me of putting words in your mouth. I don’t believe I did. Tell me, if you don’t mind, what’s the difference between saturation bombing of a city and carpet bombing of a city. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/estilicon-you-punk-im-calling-you-out/154376.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/estilicon-you-punk-im-calling-you-out/154376.md?page=4)