# Etan Patz. Conviction based solely on confession **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 25, 2012, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etan-patz-conviction-based-solely-on-confession/623090 "2012-05-25T19:02:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2012, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etan-patz-conviction-based-solely-on-confession/623090/1 "2012-05-25T19:02:51Z")
This is actually a general question, not necessarily about this particular case. The currently reported facts: Someone confessed to kidnapping and killing Etan Patz. There is no physical evidence. There are no witnesses. The only circumstantial evidence is that the confessor lived in the vicintiy of Etan Patz. That’s in NYC, so he’s one of hundeds of thousands of people in that vicinity. There’s not even any evidence of a crime being committed. Etan Patz might have fallen into an open manhole and been eaten by an alligator. So based on that information, in this case or any other, can a person be properly convicted of a crime based solely on a confession? I don’t doubt it could happen given a weak defense or improper conduct by the state. But what is the law on a matter like this? ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2012, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etan-patz-conviction-based-solely-on-confession/623090/2 "2012-05-25T19:24:22Z")
The fact that the guy is now at Bellvue and on suicide watch makes me wonder if he was just some nut who confessed to a crime he didn’t commit. ---
**Author:** ![Nunzio\_Tavulari](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Nunzio\_Tavulari](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nunzio_Tavulari)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2012, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etan-patz-conviction-based-solely-on-confession/623090/3 "2012-05-25T19:38:58Z")
The press is making a big deal about this because it gets them views. The police are well acquainted with people who confess to a crime that they didn’t commit and the District Attorney is unlikely to press for a trial on flimsy evidence. If the abduction had happened a week ago, there may be an impetus for a fast and resolution to public pressure, but no longer. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2012, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etan-patz-conviction-based-solely-on-confession/623090/4 "2012-05-25T19:55:28Z")
From what I read the guy knew details about the case which were not made public. The police typically do not reveal everything specifically to be able to filter out false confessions. He also left his job and moved immediately after the kidnapping. I’m not saying this proves he did it, but that the police didn’t take the confession at face value. I’d be surprised if lots of people hadn’t confessed in the last 20 years. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2012, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etan-patz-conviction-based-solely-on-confession/623090/5 "2012-05-25T21:23:31Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > The fact that the guy is now at Bellvue and on suicide watch makes me wonder if he was just some nut who confessed to a crime he didn’t commit. You mean like [John Mark Karr](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Mark_Karr)? The first thing I thought of when I heard about the “recent developments”. ---
**Author:** ![Opus1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/858c86/32.png) [@Opus1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Opus1)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2012, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etan-patz-conviction-based-solely-on-confession/623090/6 "2012-05-26T18:46:48Z")
There is no specific evidence required to convict someone of a crime. All that is required is that the jury be convinced beyond a reasonable doubt. Whether a confession satisfies that probably depends on factual details. Does the confessor have a long history of mental illness and he says that he and Elvis committed the murder together and then took the body to Mars? Or is the confessor a sane person who gives a plausible version of events and reveals details of the crime that only the murderer could know? There is one other catch. Some states still require a corpus delicti. This does not mean a body, but rather independent evidence of a crime apart from the defendant’s out-of-court confession. This rule has fallen out of favor, but still exists in a minority of jurisdictions. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etan-patz-conviction-based-solely-on-confession/623090/7 "2012-05-29T15:59:40Z")
Thanks **Opus1**. So _corpus delecti_, now in disfavor, and not used in most jurisdictions is the only thing that would prevent a conviction for a crime that never occurred. It seems in NYC, there is a lot of investigation going on to determine if this particular crime was committed by this individual. I assume they get a lot of false confessions from the fringe there, and other localities also. But it explains how a coerced confession so easily leads to conviction in some cases. In those cases where an actual crime is proven, I can see jurors easily convicting someone on a confession alone. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etan-patz-conviction-based-solely-on-confession/623090/8 "2012-05-29T16:59:36Z")
Can’t speak for other states , but according to the NYS Criminal Procedure Law > [@](#): > > 60.50 Rules of evidence; statements of defendants; corroboration. > A person may not be convicted of any offense solely upon evidence of a > confession or admission made by him without additional proof that the > offense charged has been committed. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etan-patz-conviction-based-solely-on-confession/623090/9 "2012-05-29T17:55:37Z")
The news reports I have been reading are highly dubious, despite his “church confession” in the '80s. A boy on his way to the bus stop would willingly follow a stranger down cellar stairs, as the suspect says? He put the body in a box for trash pick-up and it sat there for two days without being noticed, while the whole neighborhood was being combed for him? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etan-patz-conviction-based-solely-on-confession/623090/10 "2012-05-29T19:08:33Z")
An earlier thread that may be of interest: > **[Can you be convicted on a confession alone?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=637594)** > > Lets say someone gets some weird thrill out of confessing to fictional crimes, so they go to the police station and confess to something like the following: Befriending and murdering a woman a few years ago whose identity they did not know and that... ETA: I see **TriPolar** weighed in there, too. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etan-patz-conviction-based-solely-on-confession/623090/11 "2012-05-29T20:03:09Z")
Of course, if he left the body out for trash collection in 1979, it’s probably \*still there. \* ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etan-patz-conviction-based-solely-on-confession/623090/12 "2012-05-29T20:04:02Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > An earlier thread that may be of interest: > [Can you be convicted on a confession alone? - Factual Questions - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=637594) > > ETA: I see **TriPolar** weighed in there, too. Yes. With this new case in the news I’m trying to find out how the system is supposed to prevent these problems. This one is a little different than many others because of the lack of evidence of a crime being committed, even though its seems likely there is some underlying crime. I’ve just recalled also that George Bush as governor of Texas stopped an execution for someone until evidence that he committed the murder was established. The man was already known to provided false confessions. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etan-patz-conviction-based-solely-on-confession/623090/13 "2012-05-29T20:30:15Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > …I’ve just recalled also that George Bush as governor of Texas stopped an execution for someone until evidence that he committed the murder was established. The man was already known to provided false confessions. If you mean the Ricky McGinn case, that was because DNA found on the scene hadn’t previously been tested to the fullest extent possible, not because there was any doubt that someone had been killed: [http://lubbockonline.com/stories/071300/sta\_071300097.shtml](http://lubbockonline.com/stories/071300/sta_071300097.shtml). Doesn’t look like McGinn, who was ultimately executed, had provided any confession, false or otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etan-patz-conviction-based-solely-on-confession/623090/14 "2012-05-29T21:46:56Z")
Actually I had some of the details from that case mixed up with[Henry Lee Lucas](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Lee_Lucas). Lucas may or may not have been a serial killer, but had confessed to around 600 murders. A task force intended to investigate the crimes found around 350 credible confessions. Bush commuted his sentence entirely. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2012, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etan-patz-conviction-based-solely-on-confession/623090/15 "2012-06-08T14:44:20Z")
Newspaper reports are saying that during a search of the suspects residence they found clothing and a toy that appear to be from Etan. Unconfirmed right now. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2012, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etan-patz-conviction-based-solely-on-confession/623090/16 "2012-06-08T16:06:39Z")
[Link](http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2012/06/08/investigators-find-child-clothes-toy-at-etan-patz-killer-new-jersey-home/) ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2025, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etan-patz-conviction-based-solely-on-confession/623090/17 "2025-07-21T22:58:06Z")
Updating this thread: > **[Appeals court orders new trial for man convicted in 1979 Etan Patz case](https://apnews.com/article/etan-patz-missing-boy-hernandez-overturned-d8afc696c23d4d0163a22d61a82668ee)** > > A federal appeals court has overturned the conviction of the man who was found guilty in 2017 of killing 6-year-old Etan Patz in 1979. And for those not familiar with the long history of the case: > **[Disappearance of Etan Patz](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Etan_Patz)** > > Etan Kalil Patz (/ˈeɪtɑːn ˈpeɪts/; October 9, 1972 – May 25, 1979) was a six-year-old American boy who disappeared on May 25, 1979, on his way to his school bus stop in the SoHo neighborhood of Lower Manhattan. His disappearance helped launch the missing children movement, which included new legislation and new methods for tracking down missing children. Several years after he disappeared, Patz was one of the first children to be profiled on the "photo on a milk carton" campaigns of the early 1... ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2026, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etan-patz-conviction-based-solely-on-confession/623090/18 "2026-06-23T07:38:49Z")
And it’s over. > **[US supreme court reinstates murder conviction in case of Etan Patz](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/jun/22/etan-patz-pedro-hernandez-conviction-reinstated)** > > Appeals court had ruled Pedro Hernandez, 64, was wrongly convicted over 1979 disappearance of New York six-year-old ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2026, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etan-patz-conviction-based-solely-on-confession/623090/19 "2026-06-23T13:31:56Z")
> [@Opus1](#): > > There is no specific evidence required to convict someone of a crime. All that is required is that the jury be convinced beyond a reasonable doubt. If a person pleads guilty, would a jury even be involved at all? (I’m assuming that someone who willingly confessed would also plead guilty) ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2026, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etan-patz-conviction-based-solely-on-confession/623090/20 "2026-06-23T13:52:22Z")
For pleading guilt, perhaps, perhaps not. It’s one thing to confess performing a set of actions and a separate thing to acknowledge those actions were criminal. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etan-patz-conviction-based-solely-on-confession/623090.md?page=2)