# Ethical Considerations of Jaywalking **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 5, 2009, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-considerations-of-jaywalking/488340 "2009-03-05T00:27:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2009, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-considerations-of-jaywalking/488340/1 "2009-03-05T00:27:01Z")
I work in midtown Manhattan and do quite a bit of walking. Oftentimes, catching my next train or getting to a meeting on time requires jaywalking. Being an experienced walker in NY, I can quickly determine exactly how much time I have to cross a street when the “don’t walk” sign is lit. I take advantage of cabs making turns and the ability to judge the speed of cars about to cross an intersection. Frequently there are other people that follow my lead in crossing. Many times, there are visitors to city, tourists and people with children. When they see me begin to cross, they start to cross without realizing that they don’t have the time to make it before the car or taxi gets there. What is my obligation to these others? Over the years, there have been some close calls. Once, it was a mother and child who were almost hit and that scared the heck out of me. Things to consider: I’m not the only one who does this. There are other experienced walkers who do the same thing as me at the same time. Also, one might say that it’s not my responsibility if someone else is stupid enough to not look and blindly follow me. But sometimes, these people have children with them. On a crowded street, it’s impossible to determine who will blindly follow and who won’t. You can’t even tell if there are children hiding amongst the taller adults. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2009, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-considerations-of-jaywalking/488340/2 "2009-03-05T01:23:23Z")
I used to do the same thing when I lived in NY, and concluded that I just couldn’t be responsible for other people. It’s not like you are waving “come on” to them; they follow you of their own volition, and they, not you, are responsible for the safety of their children. Besides, in your absence, they’d probably get into just about the same amount of trouble. That mother and child who were almost hit . . . you may have saved them from the \*next \*car that really would have hit them. And by the way . . . have you tried crossing streets in Rome? ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2009, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-considerations-of-jaywalking/488340/3 "2009-03-05T03:14:32Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > And by the way . . . have you tried crossing streets in Rome? Heh. I have. Roman drivers are truly and utterly raging maniacs. Which is why I was so shocked to see a car stop in the street once (and only once did I witness this in my time there) to allow a pedestrian to cross. On closer inspection, the person crossing the street was in a wheelchair. ---
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2009, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-considerations-of-jaywalking/488340/4 "2009-03-05T03:17:06Z")
Dude, you’re simply the vanguard of natural selection. Walk tall. Walk proud. Walk fast. ---
**Author:** ![imfloating](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bc79bd/32.png) [@imfloating](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/imfloating)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2009, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-considerations-of-jaywalking/488340/5 "2009-03-05T03:37:08Z")
I was always under the impression that j-walking was crossing from one corner to the opposite cormer. Let’s say from the SE to the NW. I think you’re referring to crossing against the light. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2009, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-considerations-of-jaywalking/488340/6 "2009-03-05T07:27:49Z")
I say, let 'em crash. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2009, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-considerations-of-jaywalking/488340/7 "2009-03-05T08:02:27Z")
I see this all the time in DC. One person makes a break for it and a bunch of people standing on the corner just start walking without realizing they are walking into traffic. Situational awareness is a wonderful thing more people should have. ---
**Author:** ![GESancMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gesancman/32/2923_2.png) [@GESancMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GESancMan)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2009, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-considerations-of-jaywalking/488340/8 "2009-03-05T08:16:03Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > Frequently there are other people that follow my lead in crossing. Many times, there are visitors to city, tourists and people with children. When they see me begin to cross, they start to cross without realizing that they don’t have the time to make it before the car or taxi gets there. Or maybe they’re from California, where they are used to waltzing out into raging traffic and expecting it to come to a screeching halt. ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Mood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac91a4/32.png) [@Blue\_Mood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Mood)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2009, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-considerations-of-jaywalking/488340/9 "2009-03-05T09:53:47Z")
You are not responsible for somebody following you. Having said that, if I were in your situation I would either wait for the light (especially if I were aware of children around), or if I had to cross then, do so at a slow run (obviously taking care not to trip, etc.). That way others could see that I had to run to make it across safely, and think again before risking it themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2009, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-considerations-of-jaywalking/488340/10 "2009-03-05T12:12:59Z")
… ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2009, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-considerations-of-jaywalking/488340/11 "2009-03-05T14:15:09Z")
> [@imfloating](#): > > I was always under the impression that j-walking was crossing from one corner to the opposite cormer. Let’s say from the SE to the NW. I think you’re referring to crossing against the light. It’s crossing anyplace that isn’t a designated crosswalk. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2009, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-considerations-of-jaywalking/488340/12 "2009-03-05T14:56:41Z")
Hell, in Chicago you can pretty much tell the tourists - their the ones standing at the corners waiting for the lights! I used to travel to Milwaukee regularly for business - a city with WAY less traffic than Chicago - and was shocked to hear that it was a regular occurrance for cops to hand out tiockets for jaywalking. An odd feeling, not crossing in the middle of the block, standing at a corner with no traffic, waiting for a light to change. :rolleyes: As long as you are not impeding vehicular traffic, cross where and when you wish. If some idiot chooses to folow your example without checking for traffic, well, might as well get those genes outta the pool. ---
**Author:** ![EmAnJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@EmAnJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmAnJ)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2009, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-considerations-of-jaywalking/488340/13 "2009-03-05T15:09:30Z")
I stopped jaywalking and starting to cross when the hand starts flashing when I realized I was setting a horrible example for other people, especially children. I don’t want kids thinking it’s ok to cross without a sidewalk or cross signals and then getting hit. I also don’t totally trust my judgement when I’m in a hurry. I quick glance side to side might not catch that car coming out of the alley 10 feet from the intersection or the speeding car making a quick turn at the yellow. Both drivers AND pedestrians have to be more aware. btw, I hate, HATE anyone who crosses on the flashing hand while I’m trying to make a turn. I honk at you. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2009, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-considerations-of-jaywalking/488340/14 "2009-03-05T15:27:11Z")
By the way, I just sent this exact question to the “Ask the Ethicist” column of The New York Times Magazine. Let’s see if he responds. ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2009, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-considerations-of-jaywalking/488340/15 "2009-03-05T15:49:40Z")
In DC the crosswalks have countdown clocks telling you how much time you have before the cross traffic light turns green. ---
**Author:** ![Dante](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dante/32/9673_2.png) [@Dante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2009, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-considerations-of-jaywalking/488340/16 "2009-03-05T16:00:46Z")
Do many people take jaywalking as a point of pride? I’ve always found it to be a little arrogant. You tend to end up blocking right-on-red traffic (ditto for standing half in the road while waiting for the light to change). I’d think traffic would flow much more easily if pedestrians simply followed their signals. I walk through downtown Toronto daily and pedestrians here are a nightmare. With respect to the OP, you are emphatically not responsible for anyone else’s herd mentality. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2009, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-considerations-of-jaywalking/488340/17 "2009-03-05T16:04:56Z")
> [@EmAnJ](#): > > btw, I hate, HATE anyone who crosses on the flashing hand while I’m trying to make a turn. I honk at you. It’s perfectly OK to cross on the flashing hand. That’s not a “don’t walk” signal, it’s a walk signal with a warning. By honking at those pedestrians, you’re being rude. The term “jaywalking” is more then just crossing catty-corner (which is legal at some intersections). Wiki has a good article on it. And where else can you learn such nifty terms as zebra crossing, pelican crossing, and puffin crossing? ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2009, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-considerations-of-jaywalking/488340/18 "2009-03-05T16:24:06Z")
> [@Dante](#): > > Do many people take jaywalking as a point of pride? I’ve always found it to be a little arrogant. You tend to end up blocking right-on-red traffic (ditto for standing half in the road while waiting for the light to change). … Good point. New York is the one city where right-on-red is not allowed. I see your point for other cities. ---
**Author:** ![EmAnJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@EmAnJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmAnJ)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2009, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-considerations-of-jaywalking/488340/19 "2009-03-05T17:11:34Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > It’s perfectly OK to cross on the flashing hand. That’s not a “don’t walk” signal, it’s a walk signal with a warning. By honking at those pedestrians, you’re being rude. No, that signal means don’t start walking across if you haven’t already. My problem is with those that start walking across when it’s already flashing, meanwhile there are 10 cars behind me trying to turn right during rush hour and you’re holding up traffic. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-considerations-of-jaywalking/488340/20 "2009-03-06T14:26:48Z")
This was the Ethicist’s response to me: "Thanks for the interesting query. I take up a similar question in “The Good, the Bad and the Difference,” a book based on my column, available in most book stores for purchase (or no cost browsing). RC" [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-considerations-of-jaywalking/488340.md?page=2)