# Ethical Conundrums in Sci Fi
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-conundrums-in-sci-fi/984101
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [May 15, 2023, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-conundrums-in-sci-fi/984101 "2023-05-15T23:45:10Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)
#### Post date: [May 15, 2023, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-conundrums-in-sci-fi/984101/1 "2023-05-15T23:45:10Z")
What are some examples of science fiction, whether it be novels, short stories, movies, or tv episodes, that do a very good job examining a complex ethical issue?
---
### Author:  [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)
#### Post date: [May 15, 2023, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-conundrums-in-sci-fi/984101/2 "2023-05-15T23:53:55Z")
Could you give us a better notion of what kind of thing you are looking for?
---
### Author:  [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)
#### Post date: [May 16, 2023, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-conundrums-in-sci-fi/984101/3 "2023-05-16T00:01:16Z")
The Cold Equations is probably the gold standard. A pilot is ferrying medicine to a colony world where a plague has broken out and discovers a stowaway - a teenage girl who hoped to get to visit her brother. Unfortunately, these types of fast shuttles are built bare-bones with exactly enough fuel to make the run - and now that they’re overweight, the only way to complete the run successfully is to throw her out the airlock.
> **[The Cold Equations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cold_Equations)**
>
> "The Cold Equations" is a science fiction short story by American writer Tom Godwin, first published in Astounding Magazine in August 1954. In 1970, the Science Fiction Writers of America selected it as one of the best science-fiction short stories published before 1965, and it was therefore included in The Science Fiction Hall of Fame, Volume One, 1929–1964. The story has been widely anthologized and dramatized.
> The story takes place entirely aboard an Emergency Dispatch Ship (EDS) headed for t...
---
### Author:  [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)
#### Post date: [May 16, 2023, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-conundrums-in-sci-fi/984101/4 "2023-05-16T00:04:07Z")
ST:TNG - “The Measure of A Man”
> **[The Measure of a Man (Star Trek: The Next Generation)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Measure_of_a_Man_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation))**
>
> "The Measure of a Man" is the ninth episode of the second season of the American science fiction television series Star Trek: The Next Generation, the 35th episode overall. It was originally released on February 13, 1989, in broadcast syndication. It was written as a spec script by former attorney and Star Trek: The Original Series novelist Melinda M. Snodgrass. It was directed by Robert Scheerer.
> Set in the 24th century, the series follows the adventures of the Starfleet crew of the Federatio...
---
### Author:  [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)
#### Post date: [May 16, 2023, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-conundrums-in-sci-fi/984101/5 "2023-05-16T00:07:03Z")
> [@Smapti](#):
>
> Unfortunately, these types of fast shuttles are built bare-bones with exactly enough fuel to make the run
Which I’ve always felt was a stupid way to run things. Looks like a foreshadowing of corporate idiocy and stinginess.
---
### Author:  [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)
#### Post date: [May 16, 2023, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-conundrums-in-sci-fi/984101/6 "2023-05-16T00:14:15Z")
> [@Smapti](#):
>
> The Cold Equations is probably the gold standard. A pilot is ferrying medicine to a colony world where a plague has broken out and discovers a stowaway - a teenage girl who hoped to get to visit her brother. Unfortunately, these types of fast shuttles are built bare-bones with exactly enough fuel to make the run…
> [@running\_coach](#):
>
> Which I’ve always felt was a stupid way to run things.
Yes. Unfortunately the drama of the story is undermined by the idiocy of the premise, that the margin for error in the amount of fuel carried would be literally zero. I just couldn’t get over how stupid that was, because the writing is otherwise excellent. The editor should have sent it back to the author construct the setup in some other plausible manner from a physics/engineering perspective.
---
### Author:  [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)
#### Post date: [May 16, 2023, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-conundrums-in-sci-fi/984101/7 "2023-05-16T00:38:26Z")
The _Culture_ novels by Iain Banks explore the ethical principles of a post-scarcity society run by superintelligent AIs (and their interaction with other civilizations).
One of the most striking examples is in _Surface Detail_, in which some societies have used technology to turn their religious fantasies into reality. They have constructed virtual Hells into which the mind states of the dead may be transferred for eternal torment.
---
### Author:  [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)
#### Post date: [May 16, 2023, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-conundrums-in-sci-fi/984101/8 "2023-05-16T00:38:40Z")
We’ve done this _ad nauseum_, I partially disagree, but it’s a topic for another thread.
ETA, I was referring to Cold Equations.
---
### Author:  [@Briny\_Deep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Briny_Deep)
#### Post date: [May 16, 2023, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-conundrums-in-sci-fi/984101/9 "2023-05-16T00:45:43Z")
> [@Riemann](#):
>
> They have constructed virtual Hells into which the mind states of the dead may be transferred for eternal torment.
So, basically, _Black Mirror_. Love that show but I’m not sure if they exactly explored whether or not we _should_ do that. (Puzzling over the answer myself. /s)
It strikes me that an ethical conundrum can happen in any genre, and while sci-fi allows the exploration of ethical situations beyond our current technology, there are plenty of ethics-related plotlines that take place in sci-fi universes but didn’t have to take place there. Another ST:TNG example, Worf’s injury and decision whether to commit suicide. That story happened to take place on a spaceship, but it could have been the Wild West - nothing particularly sci-fi about it.
---
### Author:  [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)
#### Post date: [May 16, 2023, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-conundrums-in-sci-fi/984101/10 "2023-05-16T01:01:07Z")
> [@Riemann](#):
>
> > [@Smapti](#):
> >
> > The Cold Equations is probably the gold standard. A pilot is ferrying medicine to a colony world where a plague has broken out and discovers a stowaway - a teenage girl who hoped to get to visit her brother. Unfortunately, these types of fast shuttles are built bare-bones with exactly enough fuel to make the run…
>
> > [@running\_coach](#):
> >
> > Which I’ve always felt was a stupid way to run things.
>
> Yes. Unfortunately the drama of the story is undermined by the idiocy of the premise, that the margin for error in the amount of fuel carried would be literally zero. I just couldn’t get over how stupid that was, because the writing is otherwise excellent. The editor should have sent it back to the author construct the setup in some other plausible manner from a physics/engineering perspective.
It’s dumb on many levels. But I feel like it’s typical of sci-fi ethical conundrums in that’s it’s really just a reworked “Trolley Problem”.
- Jettison the stowaway or the 120 lbs of life-saving medicine for the colony?.
- Enter the Neutral Zone to rescue the Kobayashi Maru and risk war or abandon it to its fate?
- Become the Kwisatz Haderach so I can avenge my father and secure humanities future, but at the cost of 60 billion lives?
---
### Author:  [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)
#### Post date: [May 16, 2023, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-conundrums-in-sci-fi/984101/11 "2023-05-16T01:03:29Z")
> [@msmith537](#):
>
> Become the Kwisatz Haderach so I can avenge my father and secure humanities future, but at the cost of 60 billion lives?
Spoilers for the _Dune_ sequels;
That one’s really not a choice at all - as soon as Paul foresaw that future he was destined to live it out no matter what decisions he thought he was making along the way.
---
### Author:  [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)
#### Post date: [May 16, 2023, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-conundrums-in-sci-fi/984101/12 "2023-05-16T01:15:38Z")
> [@Briny\_Deep](#):
>
> It strikes me that an ethical conundrum can happen in any genre, and while sci-fi allows the exploration of ethical situations beyond our current technology, there are plenty of ethics-related plotlines that take place in sci-fi universes but didn’t have to take place there. Another ST:TNG example, Worf’s injury and decision whether to commit suicide. That story happened to take place on a spaceship, but it could have been the Wild West - nothing particularly sci-fi about it.
There’s also the episode where Worf is the only guy on board who can serve as a compatible donor for an injured Romulan; to quote Picard, _“I don’t want to order you. But I ask you. I beg you to volunteer.”_
(To quote Worf: _“I understand.”_)
---
### Author:  [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)
#### Post date: [May 16, 2023, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-conundrums-in-sci-fi/984101/13 "2023-05-16T01:19:23Z")
> [@Smapti](#):
>
> > [@msmith537](#):
> >
> > Become the Kwisatz Haderach so I can avenge my father and secure humanities future, but at the cost of 60 billion lives?
>
> Spoilers for the _Dune_ sequels;
>
> That one’s really not a choice at all - as soon as Paul foresaw that future he was destined to live it out no matter what decisions he thought he was making along the way.
I do not recall that Paul ever actually sat down and weighed option A vs option B as an ethical dilemma. At some point, but well after he had set/precipitated events into motion, he has a prophetic vision realizing that things had gone too far:
> [@](#):
>
> And Paul saw how futile were any efforts of his to change any smallest bit of this. He had thought to oppose the jihad within himself, but the jihad would be. His legions would rage out from Arrakis even without him. They needed only the legend he already had become. He had shown them the way, given them mastery even over the Guild which must have the spice to exist.
>
> A sense of failure pervaded him[…]
>
> This is the climax, Paul thought. From here, the future will open, the clouds part onto a kind of glory. And if I die here, they’ll say I sacrificed myself that my spirit might lead them. And if I live, they’ll say nothing can oppose Muad’Dib.
---
### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [May 16, 2023, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-conundrums-in-sci-fi/984101/14 "2023-05-16T01:20:13Z")
I’ll just list out a few potential conundrums-- Any of them will have countless examples in the genre.
- What counts as a “person”, and deserving of rights? An AI? A partially-uplifted animal? An alien?
- Is it ethical to duplicate a person? Having done so, what is it acceptable to do with the duplicate?
- Is it acceptable to change the past? Is it acceptable to not change the past? Does the answer change if there’s reason to believe that you can’t succeed?
- Is it acceptable to punish someone for something they haven’t done yet, but which you know they will? Does it depend on how you know-- Is it just through advanced psychology, or through actual precognizance, time travel, or the like?
- Are alien cultures bound by human ethical standards? Should they be (if that’s even a different question)?
---
### Author:  [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)
#### Post date: [May 16, 2023, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-conundrums-in-sci-fi/984101/15 "2023-05-16T01:55:14Z")
Can you give a really good example of each?
---
### Author:  [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)
#### Post date: [May 16, 2023, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-conundrums-in-sci-fi/984101/16 "2023-05-16T02:14:21Z")
Honestly, I would recommend at this point that you seek out _The Science Fiction Hall of Fame_. It’s a three-volume compilation (two volumes officially, but Volume II was published as two separate books labeled II-A and II-B) put together early '70s as a collection of the best sci-fi short stories and novellas published prior to the establishment of the Nebula awards, and you’ll find pretty good examples of all of those types therein. I don’t believe they’re currently in print, but Amazon has them all available on Kindle and they have used copies for sale at reasonable prices.
---
### Author:  [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)
#### Post date: [May 16, 2023, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-conundrums-in-sci-fi/984101/17 "2023-05-16T02:49:36Z")
One of the classic conundrums is that faced by R. Giskard Reventlov - to benefit humanity as a whole, is it OK to turn the Earth into a radioactive wasteland?
---
### Author:  [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)
#### Post date: [May 16, 2023, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-conundrums-in-sci-fi/984101/18 "2023-05-16T02:50:32Z")
Ursula K. Leguin’s “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas” is all about an ethical dilemma.
A utopian society only can exist due to the terrible suffering of a child.
---
### Author:  [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)
#### Post date: [May 16, 2023, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-conundrums-in-sci-fi/984101/19 "2023-05-16T03:03:22Z")
Halfway through the first season, I realized that one reason I liked _The Good Place_ is that it’s Sci-Fi.
A friend of mine, a University prof, teaches Philosophy and Ethics. During its run, he’d use each week’s episode for discussion. He said it was because they’d cover at least one classic ethical dilemma in each episode. He went on to list a dozen or so, but I only recognized the Trolley Problem.
---
### Author:  [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)
#### Post date: [May 16, 2023, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-conundrums-in-sci-fi/984101/20 "2023-05-16T03:10:11Z")
I thought of Omelas, but I’d like to think we all believe we’d walk away.
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-conundrums-in-sci-fi/984101.md?page=2)