# Ethical dilemma: using carpool lane when infant is 2nd person? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 4, 2002, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-dilemma-using-carpool-lane-when-infant-is-2nd-person/101702 "2002-04-04T02:38:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-dilemma-using-carpool-lane-when-infant-is-2nd-person/101702/21 "2002-04-04T22:29:30Z")
I say you’re doing other drives a _favor_ by using the HOV lane. There is an usually empty lane right next to me, and I’m sitting in traffic, but if even if only a handful of the drivers in front of me were using that mostly empty lane, that would help ease congestion for me in the backed-up lane. I say use it! Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Robb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a183cd/32.png) [@Robb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robb)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-dilemma-using-carpool-lane-when-infant-is-2nd-person/101702/22 "2002-04-04T22:47:27Z")
Good ahead and use it without feeling guilty. Also, people around here have their little people raise their arms as they pass the transit police so that the police know there is more than one occupant. This could be helpful when Whatsit Jr. is a bit older. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-dilemma-using-carpool-lane-when-infant-is-2nd-person/101702/23 "2002-04-04T22:55:35Z")
I don’t even begin to understand the question. Ethical? What’s that got to do with anything? It’s legal and that’s all that counts. Is it unethical to speed? No, it is just illegal. Is it unethical to use the carpool lane if you don’t qualify? No, it is illegal. What is unethical is to break the law because it is antisocial behavior but if you are not breaking the law it is cannot be unethical. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-dilemma-using-carpool-lane-when-infant-is-2nd-person/101702/24 "2002-04-05T08:08:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sailor \* > What is unethical is to break the law because it is antisocial behavior but if you are not breaking the law it is cannot be unethical. Not to hijack things too much, but I _strongly_ disagree. Just because there isn’t a law prohibiting action X does not automatically make action X “right”. Case in point: Enron executives who prevented their employees from selling their then-sinking company stock, while said executives were dumping their own shares before they became worthless. There are no laws AFAIK against this practice, but it sure as heck isn’t ethically correct. ---
**Author:** ![TeaElle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8491ac/32.png) [@TeaElle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TeaElle)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-dilemma-using-carpool-lane-when-infant-is-2nd-person/101702/25 "2002-04-05T08:43:20Z")
As a matter of principle, I honestly encourage that anyone who is entitled legally use the HOV lane at every opportunity, especially during rush hours. I figure that the every time people look over at those all but empty lanes and see cars whipping past them as they crawl, the more people might be encouraged to start carpooling. And I’m in favor of any and every measure which gets more bodies into fewer cars, even laws. (When Giuliani said two people per car for the bridges and tunnels during rush hour, I would’ve french kissed him if I could’ve.) ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-dilemma-using-carpool-lane-when-infant-is-2nd-person/101702/26 "2002-04-05T19:43:48Z")
i think this is silly! i can’t even imagine having a problem with this. your kid is a person, use the lane. personally, if i was driving alone or on my motorcycle and the car-pool lane was moving faster, i would be in it in flash! in the unlikely event of a ticket, i would deal it-- i took the chance, i pay the penalty. no “moral” or “ethical” questions about it. make a choice and do it! just stay the hell out of my way! judges don’t give a shit about “the spirit of the law”. if they did, do you think cops would write tickets for running stop signs if no accident resulted? all you would do is go to court and say, “well, it was clear to proceed, and the spirit of the law is to prevent collisions at the intersection.” judges don’t give a shit about the “letter of the law” either. (example provided on request) i would guess that 95 times out of 100, if a cop writes you a ticket, you are pretty much considered guilty and screwed. cops word against yours and you will lose! ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-dilemma-using-carpool-lane-when-infant-is-2nd-person/101702/27 "2002-04-05T20:10:17Z")
How nice for you, gatopescado. Upon further reflection, and reading tlw’s and Esprix’s posts especially, I have now changed my mind and feel pretty much OK about taking the carpool lane with Whatsit Jr. in tow. I hadn’t considered the benefit of relieving congestion in the non-carpool lanes. (You guys are really good; I should hang out in this forum more often.) ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-dilemma-using-carpool-lane-when-infant-is-2nd-person/101702/28 "2002-04-05T22:27:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gatopescado \* > \*\*i think this is silly! i can’t even imagine having a problem with this. your kid is a person, use the lane. > > personally, if i was driving alone or on my motorcycle and the car-pool lane was moving faster, i would be in it in flash! in the unlikely event of a ticket, i would deal it-- i took the chance, i pay the penalty. no “moral” or “ethical” questions about it. make a choice and do it! just stay the hell out of my way! > > judges don’t give a shit about “the spirit of the law”. if they did, do you think cops would write tickets for running stop signs if no accident resulted? all you would do is go to court and say, “well, it was clear to proceed, and the spirit of the law is to prevent collisions at the intersection.” judges don’t give a shit about the “letter of the law” either. (example provided on request) i would guess that 95 times out of 100, if a cop writes you a ticket, you are pretty much considered guilty and screwed. cops word against yours and you will lose! \*\* Motorcycles are allowed to use the carpool lane. At least in California. As for dealing with a ticket for a carpool lane violation, those can get expensive fast! In California the minimum fine is $271, and multiple offenders pay even more. Ed ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-dilemma-using-carpool-lane-when-infant-is-2nd-person/101702/29 "2002-04-05T23:11:01Z")
What if the lane requires three people, and you have siamese twins? ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2002, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-dilemma-using-carpool-lane-when-infant-is-2nd-person/101702/30 "2002-04-06T00:55:04Z")
Depends on whether or not the Siamese twins take up one car seat or two… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethical-dilemma-using-carpool-lane-when-infant-is-2nd-person/101702.md?page=1)