[QUOTE=jsgoddess]
jsfuckinggoddess, the William Hung of the Straight Dope. 
[/QUOTE]
::casts svengali-like spell over jsgoddess::
Come to me…I will make you a star!
[QUOTE=Kalhoun]
Oh, man…that mental picture will haunt me forever.
[/QUOTE]
It probably won’t help when I tell you that I, too, am Hung.
I think poetry must be worse than art, because people want to associate themselves with that world. They think it’s cool. By the same reasoning, I’ve dated a number of women who self-identified as writers. Writing was their thing. It was “who they were as a person.” The thing was, only one of them had ever actually written anything.
[QUOTE=jsgoddess]
jsfuckinggoddess, the William Hung of the Straight Dope.
[/QUOTE]
Hey, don’t be grabbing that title so quickly - you’ve never heard ME sing!
The first thing that came to mind when you described your soon-to-be-ex student, Figaro, is, “Has he ever tried out for American Idol?” That level of disconnect with the reality of your level of talent reaches truly staggering proportions on that show (to all of our amusement. 
)
The second is a question for you, Figgy, (may I call you Figgy?) - I have very little natural talent for singing (I come by it honestly - no one in my family can sing). Would singing lessons turn my less-than-average voice into something that would be pleasant for other people to listen to, or am I as good as I’m gonna get, and I just have to face the reality that I will never be much of a singer?
[QUOTE=featherlou]
The second is a question for you, Figgy, (may I call you Figgy?) - I have very little natural talent for singing (I come by it honestly - no one in my family can sing). Would singing lessons turn my less-than-average voice into something that would be pleasant for other people to listen to, or am I as good as I’m gonna get, and I just have to face the reality that I will never be much of a singer?
[/QUOTE]
If I can call you Al! 
Seriously, there’s no way to answer your question without being able to roll up my sleeves and try to teach you something.
Having limited singing ability usually means one of several things:
-
You do not possess the physical tools to do it well, much like some people don’t have the physical tools for basketball. In that case, there’s not much use in working on your skills, since whatever return you get on your time will be small.
-
You have no extraordinary vocal talents, but you do possess enough talent to sing far better than you do now – you just don’t know how to access it yet. You’d be surprised how many people fall into that camp. Most of us approach singing as an extension of speech and have little idea how to access the parts of the voice that give it beauty, extend the range, and generally make a singer sound “good.” Sometimes a few lessons can really expose a diamond (or at least a cubic zirc!) in the rough. You never know.
-
You may simply have a skewed perception of your own voice. I have a student currently who when asked “how would you describe your voice?” in her first lesson replied: “awful, weak, ugly, limited, and generally embarassing.” (to which I replied, amused, “ok…and now what do you think you could afford to improve?” :D). She’s certainly no Leontyne Price, but after a few lessons and a few “aha” moments for her, she’s working her way through an entertaining and challenging list of music that she never thought she’d be able to sing. In other words, maybe you don’t stink at all.
That’s great, Figgy (or should it be Betty? 
) So basically my best bet would be to try a few lessons with someone who knows what they’re doing and get a good assessment of my potential.
[QUOTE=featherlou]
That’s great, Figgy (or should it be Betty? ) So basically my best bet would be to try a few lessons with someone who knows what they’re doing and get a good assessment of my potential.
[/QUOTE]
Yep. But make sure it’s someone who you get a good vibe from and who strikes you on that “sometimes you just know” level as being knowledgeable, capable, and trustworthy. Finding a good teacher can take some trial and error.
Good luck.
~fig(gy)
[QUOTE=featherlou]
That’s great, Figgy (or should it be Betty? ) So basically my best bet would be to try a few lessons with someone who knows what they’re doing and get a good assessment of my potential.
[/QUOTE]
(Simon) Featherlou, dear…that was utterly dreadful. It was a mess. I’m sorry, but that was simply not your best performance. (/Simon)
[QUOTE=Kalhoun]
(Simon) Featherlou, dear…that was utterly dreadful. It was a mess. I’m sorry, but that was simply not your best performance. (/Simon)
[/QUOTE]
(Paula)Simon, shut the fuck up already, ya limey poser.(/Paula)
[QUOTE=Caridwen]
I have a friend who’s convinced her daughter can be a model. Don’t get me wrong, she’s not ugly but she’s no great beauty by a long shot. On a 1-10 scale, I’d have to give her about a 4. Yet she drags this kid to modeling agencies all the time. I feel bad for her daughter. She deals with people willing to take her money now but one day someone is going to be really honest with her.
[/QUOTE]
I bet some people were honest. In my experience agents get so many people who are unacceptable that they give short shrift to them. In New York, anyway, auditions for kids - both agent auditions and casting agent auditions - are set up to exclude parents. Which is the way it should be.
It’s a bit amazing how fast agents can tell someone who might make it. A great example of Blink - it just takes seconds. I was beginning to see what they saw by the time we were through.
[QUOTE=tdn]
(and one particular smokin’ hot MIT chick).
[/QUOTE]
As someone who went to MIT when it was 15% coed, all I can say is that hell has just frozen over.
Being tone deaf, my singing career never advanced beyond singing Four Seasons parodies in Boy Scouts.
Voyager - not the William Hung, but the William Shatner of the Straight Dope.
[QUOTE=Manda JO]
You can be vauge. Warn him to be carful becuase you have heard of teachers at other universities that fleece students into paying for expensive voice lessons only to leave them high and dry when it comes to admission to the program. You can even tell him you’ve known students with more experience and skill (avoiding the whole talent/work ethic, since he believes he has the former and has convinced himself he will soon develop the latter) who were rejected by that other program.
[/QUOTE]
As usual, Manda JO speaks with wisdom.
[QUOTE=tdn]
(Paula)Simon, shut the fuck up already, ya limey poser.(/Paula)
[/QUOTE]
(Randy) Dawg…It’s not workin’ for me. I’m sorry, I’m just not feelin’ the love, girl! (/Randy)
Can you be vague?
“I’m sorry that we’re not a good fit. In future years, you’re going to have a number of coaches*…one thing that will help missteps is to research them thoroughly before you sign up with them. That way you know about their history, style, teaching methods, etc. and you’ll end up with the right coach for you.”
It’s not your responsibility to keep him from walking off a cliff. But it saying “keep your eyes open. There are cliffs in the area” seems like a nice thing to do.
*Do opera singers get coached throughout their careers? If not, that line won’t work.
[QUOTE=amarinth]
*Do opera singers get coached throughout their careers?
[/QUOTE]
Most do. We’re at the distinct disadvantage of not being able to hear ourselves accurately (you know that “hey – I don’t sound like that!” thought you have when you hear yourself on the answering machine? The difference is even bigger in singing), so most of us rely on people that we trust to at least check in with us periodically and tell us the unvarnished truth.
[QUOTE=Kalhoun]
(Simon) Featherlou, dear…that was utterly dreadful. It was a mess. I’m sorry, but that was simply not your best performance. (/Simon)
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, actually, it was.
[QUOTE=tdn]
I’ve dated a number of women who self-identified as writers. Writing was their thing. It was “who they were as a person.” The thing was, only one of them had ever actually written anything.
[/QUOTE]
You must have met my mother! Worse, she doesn’t even read anything either.
[QUOTE=tdn]
Yep. I wonder if things are better in Europe. I’m pretty sure they are in Japan.
[/QUOTE]
Somebody hasn’t heard much Japanese pop music. (Or European, for that matter.)
[QUOTE=Figaro]
If I can call you Al!
- You do not possess the physical tools to do it well, much like some people don’t have the physical tools for basketball. In that case, there’s not much use in working on your skills, since whatever return you get on your time will be small.
[/QUOTE]
I really find your analysis insightful, being a musical student myself (pre-university; I love singing in choirs, have been in some pretty good ones over the past nine years, and intend to keep going as an amateur for as long as I can. I’m definitely in your #2 category, so I’ll never be professional, but I absolutely adore choral music, so I can’t really give it up.)
However, I do want to point out that, at least on the beginners’ level, “physical tools” virtually never include your actual voice. I have yet to meet someone who cannot be trained into making perfectly respectable sounds. Lack of musical talent would be the big limitation, especially tone-deafness. Like with visual arts, not everyone has the aesthetic sense they need to pursue the activity, and I don’t think that’s just a matter of training.
To paraphrase the US military policy; He didn’t ask, so don’t tell.
We had a neighbor who had no musical talent whatsoever - but he bought an expensive electric organ and took lessons, then he took lessons on the Hawaiian guitar…each was worse than the next…but he had fun practicing, his wife was supportive and he seemed quite happy to muddle through the lessons and play for friends and neighbors. I guess it was his dream to be a musician, and everybody just played along and nodded approvingly; it was that blissful ignorance that seemed to make him happy.
[QUOTE=tdn]
I would like to take this opportunity to engage in a minor hijack.
Why is it that some singers (among others) feel little need to become musicians? Can they really not be bothered? A woman I dated for a few years really wanted to become an opera singer. She had a decent instrument, but had no interest in theory. I tried to buy her a clue once, and got her an intro to theory workbook for a Christmas present. I even offered to help her through it. I thought it would be fun, and would bring us closer together. Nope. No interest whatsoever. She was destined to become the world’s greatest diva, and little things like not understanding the basics of rhythm and harmony were not going to get in her way.
[/QUOTE]
Did you ever hear what became of her?