# Ethics of Israeli settlements **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 17, 2010, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethics-of-israeli-settlements/554116 "2010-09-17T19:15:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethics-of-israeli-settlements/554116/281 "2010-09-29T18:24:35Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] The UN definition: “The planned deliberate removal from a specific territory, persons of a particular ethnic group, by force or intimidation, in order to render that area ethnically homogenous.” Your turn. How is what Israel doing not described by that? [/QUOTE] It’s not up to me to prove a negative…it’s up to you to prove your case, which thus far you have signally failed to do. You are merely appealing to emotion and playing word games. If you want to prove your case then feel free to do so. Hell, I can think of some examples myself that could be construed that way, so it shouldn’t be hard for YOU to find a few, link to them, and then quote the relevant passages. > [@](#): > > It’s not “appealing to emotion” either , but to conscience. Maybe you’d better look at the OP again. Or the thread title. Or even its first word. Until you prove your case you are merely tossing out emotionally tinged bullshit in the hope some of it sticks. -XT ---
**Author:** ![shamblesmaybe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@shamblesmaybe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shamblesmaybe)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethics-of-israeli-settlements/554116/282 "2010-09-29T19:27:39Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > [QUOTE=shamblesmaybe] > The land isn’t being seized by settlers now but it was previously taken form those who lived and farmed it. It was made vacant by war… …decades ago. And, in many cases, the previous inhabitants didn’t ‘own’ the land in any case (where there WERE previous inhabitants, which isn’t always or even often the case from what I can tell). [/QUOTE] Multi quote not gonna work here I’m gonna go for essay format. True enough, I own my house but I may not own the land it sits on…If a power greater than the one that represents me should invade and take the land I have lived on for the living memory of my family, how many years should I morn the loss of what was mine? This is of course, the crux of the problem. But without wanting to muddy the waters too much, how do we find the truth? I suggest that if someone becomes a refugee form their home in times of war in this modern age, they’re fate should be better than it has been in the past. Remember these are non combatants, farmers, not resistance fighters. They have not been allowed to return to the lands primarily because of their ethnicity, not because they represented a threat. The very first truth is that even if those people could prove they owned the land (and in many cases they can) they would still not be able to return to it. On the other hand, Jews from anywhere in the world can now move to the exact same place and call it theirs and show the papers to that effect and feel secure. Does that sound reasonable? Does pointing out this inequality make me an anti-Semite? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethics-of-israeli-settlements/554116/283 "2010-09-29T19:29:59Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > It’s not up to me to prove a negative. It’s a _positive_. Israel is positively engaged in ethnic cleansing, according to the international definition. You disagree. Can you say why you disagree or can’t you? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethics-of-israeli-settlements/554116/284 "2010-09-30T03:20:23Z")
> [@shamblesmaybe](#): > > The very first truth is that even if those people could prove they owned the land (and in many cases they can) they would still not be able to return to it. I suggest that in most cases they can’t. First, in Ottoman and Mandate Palestine, most people, especially in farming villages, didn’t own their own land. They were tenant farmers, whose land was held by absentee landlords outside of Mandate Palestine, as was mentioned prior. Secondly, even those refugees who did own their own land and lose it, it’s been 60 years, and records have been lost and destroyed. I doubt that many of the refugees would be able to prove legal title. And besides, that’s land in Israel proper. The land that the settlers are on isn’t land that the Palestinians lost through war. There weren’t a lot of people forced off their land in the West Bank, and the Palestinians and their families in the West Bank villages now under Israeli rule were there under Jordanian rule, were there under British rule, and so on. I mean, some people in the West Bank lost their lands. The Israeli government seized land for security reasons, or at least what they claimed were security reasons. But that affected a really small percentage of the population. The majority of Palestinians living in refugee camps are people, or the descendants of people, who fled what’s now Israel proper before, during, or just after the '49 war. So pointing out refugees in the context of West Bank settlements is really a red herring. The settlers are not, for the most part, taking Palestinian land. It is against Israeli law to build settlements on Palestinian owned land, and with the exception of cases where land is taken for security reasons, the Israeli government generally respects Palestinian land ownership in the West Bank, and the Israeli Supreme Court has generally upheld Palestinian land ownership in the West Bank. ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethics-of-israeli-settlements/554116/285 "2010-09-30T18:44:40Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > > [@shamblesmaybe](#): > > > > The very first truth is that even if those people could prove they owned the land (and in many cases they can) they would still not be able to return to it. > > I suggest that in most cases they can’t. First, in Ottoman and Mandate Palestine, most people, especially in farming villages, didn’t own their own land. They were tenant farmers, whose land was held by absentee landlords outside of Mandate Palestine, as was mentioned prior. Secondly, even those refugees who did own their own land and lose it, it’s been 60 years, and records have been lost and destroyed. I doubt that many of the refugees would be able to prove legal title. > > And besides, that’s land in Israel proper. The land that the settlers are on isn’t land that the Palestinians lost through war. There weren’t a lot of people forced off their land in the West Bank, and the Palestinians and their families in the West Bank villages now under Israeli rule were there under Jordanian rule, were there under British rule, and so on. > > I mean, some people in the West Bank lost their lands. The Israeli government seized land for security reasons, or at least what they claimed were security reasons. But that affected a really small percentage of the population. The majority of Palestinians living in refugee camps are people, or the descendants of people, who fled what’s now Israel proper before, during, or just after the '49 war. So pointing out refugees in the context of West Bank settlements is really a red herring. The settlers are not, for the most part, taking Palestinian land. It is against Israeli law to build settlements on Palestinian owned land, and with the exception of cases where land is taken for security reasons, the Israeli government generally respects Palestinian land ownership in the West Bank, and the Israeli Supreme Court has generally upheld Palestinian land ownership in the West Bank. More mealy-mouthed justification of the unjustifiable:rolleyes: A lot of so-called ‘public land’ inn the West Bank was confiscated from the Palestianians for ‘security reasons’ and instead of being returned to the owners when it was no longer needed for ‘security reasons’ it was given over to settlers. The fact is settlers do build on private Palestinian land and they do so with impunity as if Palestinian is lucky enough to find a judge sympatheic enough to rule in their favour the IDF rarely enforce those orders. That’s avoiding the question of why on Earth you think settlers have the right to build on Palestinian public land rather than it being used for the benefit of the Palestinians. Anyway, fuck off back down whatever hole you crawled out of. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethics-of-israeli-settlements/554116/286 "2010-09-30T19:07:24Z")
> [@These are my own pants](#): > > Anyway, fuck off back down whatever hole you crawled out of. Personal insults aren’t allowed in this forum. This is a formal warning: please don’t do this again. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethics-of-israeli-settlements/554116/287 "2010-09-30T19:12:16Z")
> [@These are my own pants](#): > > More mealy-mouthed justification of the unjustifiable:rolleyes: > > A lot of so-called ‘public land’ inn the West Bank was confiscated from the Palestianians for ‘security reasons’ and instead of being returned to the owners when it was no longer needed for ‘security reasons’ it was given over to settlers. > > The fact is settlers do build on private Palestinian land and they do so with impunity as if Palestinian is lucky enough to find a judge sympatheic enough to rule in their favour the IDF rarely enforce those orders. > > That’s avoiding the question of why on Earth you think settlers have the right to build on Palestinian public land rather than it being used for the benefit of the Palestinians. > > Anyway, fuck off back down whatever hole you crawled out of. Your anger is inappropriate. I’m not seeing any “justification” here, merely a disagreement over whether Israeli seizure of public lands “affected a really small percentage of the population” as **Captain Amazing** claims, or “a lot” as you claim; also, your claim that Israeli courts are ineffectual and unenforced presumably disagrees with his point that Israel generally respects current Palestinain land ownership. Nor has **Captain Amazing** expressed any opinion as to whether setters have any right to build on Palestinian public land, as you allege. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethics-of-israeli-settlements/554116/288 "2010-09-30T21:25:48Z")
> [@These are my own pants](#): > > A lot of so-called ‘public land’ inn the West Bank was confiscated from the Palestianians for ‘security reasons’ and instead of being returned to the owners when it was no longer needed for ‘security reasons’ it was given over to settlers. > > The fact is settlers do build on private Palestinian land and they do so with impunity as if Palestinian is lucky enough to find a judge sympatheic enough to rule in their favour the IDF rarely enforce those orders. > > That’s avoiding the question of why on Earth you think settlers have the right to build on Palestinian public land rather than it being used for the benefit of the Palestinians. I’d like a cite please that would prove that Israel confiscated privately owned lands. Just one incident will do. Even just one court case win or lose. ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethics-of-israeli-settlements/554116/289 "2010-09-30T23:46:06Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > I’d like a cite please that would prove that Israel confiscated privately owned lands. Just one incident will do. Even just one court case win or lose. Some 40% of the land taken up by the settlements is privately owned Palestinian land that has been effectively confiscated by hook or by crook. > **[BBC NEWS | Middle East | Settlements 'violate Israeli law'](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6168752.stm)** > > A report says that 40% of settlements are built on private Palestinian land, in violation of Israeli law. [http://www.btselem.org/Download/200205\_Land\_Grab\_Eng.pdf](http://www.btselem.org/Download/200205_Land_Grab_Eng.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethics-of-israeli-settlements/554116/290 "2010-09-30T23:52:52Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Your anger is inappropriate. I’m not seeing any “justification” here, merely a disagreement over whether Israeli seizure of public lands “affected a really small percentage of the population” as **Captain Amazing** claims, or “a lot” as you claim; also, your claim that Israeli courts are ineffectual and unenforced presumably disagrees with his point that Israel generally respects current Palestinain land ownership. > > Nor has **Captain Amazing** expressed any opinion as to whether setters have any right to build on Palestinian public land, as you allege. It is not inappropiate, as it is as I said a mealy-mouthed way of if not justifying, try to lessen what is at heart a policy driven by racism. Israel has seized or effectively seized over 50% of the land in the West Bank, the idea that this affects on a small percentage of the population is laughable. The idea that israel respects palestinian land ownership is lauhgable when it has set up a myriad of systems to take Palestinian land. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethics-of-israeli-settlements/554116/291 "2010-10-01T00:03:18Z")
> [@These are my own pants](#): > > > [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > > > I’d like a cite please that would prove that Israel confiscated privately owned lands. Just one incident will do. Even just one court case win or lose. > > Some 40% of the land taken up by the settlements is privately owned Palestinian land that has been effectively confiscated by hook or by crook. > [BBC NEWS | Middle East | Settlements 'violate Israeli law'](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6168752.stm) > > [http://www.btselem.org/Download/200205\_Land\_Grab\_Eng.pdf](http://www.btselem.org/Download/200205_Land_Grab_Eng.pdf) The problem is that this is only a “fact” if one believes that the organization - Peace Now, which opposes all settlement activity - has access to accurate information, and that they have interpreted it correctly. According to your cites, they claim the information was “leaked” to them from an anonymous source. Others dispute its accuracy and Peace Now’s interpretation. From a couple of second’s googling: > **[Peace Now's Report on Settlement Land](https://www.camera.org/article/peace-now-s-report-on-settlement-land/)** > > How credible are the data and analysisin anew Peace Nowreport claiming that 'a large proportion of the settlements built on the West Bank are > **[UPDATE: Peace Now Map Based Only on Palestinian Claims](https://www.camera.org/article/update-peace-now-map-based-only-on-palestinian-claims/)** > > Israeli official: Leaked Peace Now map regarding 'private Palestinian land' was based only on Palestinian claims and was used to keep track of those ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethics-of-israeli-settlements/554116/292 "2010-10-01T00:04:57Z")
> [@These are my own pants](#): > > It is not inappropiate, as it is as I said a mealy-mouthed way of if not justifying, try to lessen what is at heart a policy driven by racism. > > Israel has seized or effectively seized over 50% of the land in the West Bank, the idea that this affects on a small percentage of the population is laughable. The idea that israel respects palestinian land ownership is lauhgable when it has set up a myriad of systems to take Palestinian land. You are assuming evil intent to a dispute about facts. This will not win you any debates. ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethics-of-israeli-settlements/554116/293 "2010-10-01T00:20:51Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > > [@These are my own pants](#): > > > > Some 40% of the land taken up by the settlements is privately owned Palestinian land that has been effectively confiscated by hook or by crook. > > [BBC NEWS | Middle East | Settlements 'violate Israeli law'](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6168752.stm) > > > > [http://www.btselem.org/Download/200205\_Land\_Grab\_Eng.pdf](http://www.btselem.org/Download/200205_Land_Grab_Eng.pdf) > > The problem is that this is only a “fact” if one believes that the organization - Peace Now, which opposes all settlement activity - has access to accurate information, and that they have interpreted it correctly. > > According to your cites, they claim the information was “leaked” to them from an anonymous source. Others dispute its accuracy and Peace Now’s interpretation. From a couple of second’s googling: > > [Peace Now’s Report on Settlement Land | CAMERA](http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=7&x_issue=5&x_article=1234) > > [UPDATE: Peace Now Map Based Only on Palestinian Claims | CAMERA](http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=2&x_outlet=35&x_article=1240) So worried about possible bias, you choose camera, an organisation set up to diseminate pro-Israel propaganda. Israel uses a hodge podge of Israeli miltary law, Jordanian law and Ottoman law to administer the terrirtories and it uses whatever law suits it’s purposes. Legalistic points are moot when Israel is effectively choosing which law applies to a certain situation to effectively confiscate land from Palestinians. ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethics-of-israeli-settlements/554116/294 "2010-10-01T00:27:51Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > > [@These are my own pants](#): > > > > It is not inappropiate, as it is as I said a mealy-mouthed way of if not justifying, try to lessen what is at heart a policy driven by racism. > > > > Israel has seized or effectively seized over 50% of the land in the West Bank, the idea that this affects on a small percentage of the population is laughable. The idea that israel respects palestinian land ownership is lauhgable when it has set up a myriad of systems to take Palestinian land. > > You are assuming evil intent to a dispute about facts. This will not win you any debates. A post today from the very same poster who I criticized: > [@](#): > > You can’t. People who deny the Holocaust don’t do it through innocent ignorance, but through willful ignorance and malice. No matter what evidence you provide, he won’t believe you, because he’s chosen not to believe you. Now I wouldn’t go as far him, if someone were to grow up being told the holocaust is a hoax, then I’m sure they could believe it without being willfully ignorant. However, I don’t think it is always unfair to take someone trying belittle soemthing like Israel’s settlement policy in a very negativfe way. ---
**Author:** ![shamblesmaybe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@shamblesmaybe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shamblesmaybe)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethics-of-israeli-settlements/554116/295 "2010-10-01T08:19:32Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > > [@These are my own pants](#): > > > > Some 40% of the land taken up by the settlements is privately owned Palestinian land that has been effectively confiscated by hook or by crook. > > [BBC NEWS | Middle East | Settlements 'violate Israeli law'](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6168752.stm) > > > > [http://www.btselem.org/Download/200205\_Land\_Grab\_Eng.pdf](http://www.btselem.org/Download/200205_Land_Grab_Eng.pdf) > > The problem is that this is only a “fact” if one believes that the organization - Peace Now, which opposes all settlement activity - has access to accurate information, and that they have interpreted it correctly. > > According to your cites, they claim the information was “leaked” to them from an anonymous source. Others dispute its accuracy and Peace Now’s interpretation. From a couple of second’s googling: > > [Peace Now’s Report on Settlement Land | CAMERA](http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=7&x_issue=5&x_article=1234) > > [UPDATE: Peace Now Map Based Only on Palestinian Claims | CAMERA](http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=2&x_outlet=35&x_article=1240) I agree that the anger from the poster is misplaced but he has supported his claims from two internationally renouned sources!! You have used two quotes from a pro Israel lobby group!!! ---
**Author:** ![shamblesmaybe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@shamblesmaybe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shamblesmaybe)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethics-of-israeli-settlements/554116/296 "2010-10-01T08:25:33Z")
Besides that I do understand the frustration that creates the anger, Israel is quite clearly grabbing land, and it is the Palestinians who are the victims. The information is out there but there are people who constantly muddy the waters. I’d like to see Israel living in peace but it will never happen whilst the government allows these injustices against the Palestinians. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethics-of-israeli-settlements/554116/297 "2010-10-01T13:37:58Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > > [@Sevastopol](#): > > > > What does : > > > > > [@](#): > > > > > > The Hague Convention of 1907 and the Geneva Convention of 1949 make it a crime to take or destroy real or personal property during an occupation unless it is “absolutely necessary.” > > > > mean to you? > > The actual provision in the Hague Convention, regarding to the conduct of war (not occupation), is: > … > but what it means to me is that, assuming real or personal property is being destroyed by Israel in violation of the convention (and I’m not sure that it is…the settlements are not being built on privately owned land), then the party in violation of the convention is Israel, not the settlers. The Geneva Convention only deals with the responsibility of state actors. You can’t use it to define the settlers as “looters”. So, I give freely of myself. Supply direct answers to questions. Meet points raised. But twice now in return; further demands. No answer to my question. Your silence is best seen as assent. You no longer assert the appellation of Looters to be idiosyncratic. Now to a new argument. In opposition to the scholarly review of the law, you pose your own patched and pasted contradiction, glommed on the fly. If you wish to dispute the pertaining legislation, proceed and you will find me apt enough. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethics-of-israeli-settlements/554116/298 "2010-10-01T14:42:17Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Your problem is that, applying the same criteria to other nations and you get “second class citizen” status popping up everywhere, like mushrooms. Maybe that’s our disconnect. I think that there are second class citizenry existed in a lot of places. Women under the Taliban, Blacks under Jim Crow or Apartheid, American Indians during America’s expansion, Indians under British rule, Arabs inder Zionist rule, etc. I think the Indian/British = Arab/Zionist comparison isn’t too bad. I sure that there are some distinctions to be made but its not too bad. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethics-of-israeli-settlements/554116/299 "2010-10-01T14:48:38Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > > > The nationalization laws for one. > > We already discussed nationalization law earlier, and as was pointed out, a lot of states have right of return. It’s not generally considered particularly heinous. I think we’re talking about different laws. I have no problem with a country that has as its purpose, craeting a safe haven for the world’s Jews to offer an open invitation to the world’s jews to come to that safe haven. The nationalization law i am talking about is the one that says that the only people who cannot gain Israeli citizenship by marrying an Israeli citizen is a Palestinian. So if an Israeli marries a German, then the German can become an Israeli. If an Israeli marries a Palestinian then the Palestinian may never become a ctiizen. I believe that any children they have must leave the country by the time they become adults. In the context of a nation where a Jew marrying a Palestinian is considered a bit of a traitor, the only people who marry Palestinians are Israeli Arabs. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethics-of-israeli-settlements/554116/300 "2010-10-01T14:51:59Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > I’ll take that as an ‘I gots nuffin, but will appeal to emotion to hopefully win the day’. Let me know how that works out for you… > > -XT Before the creation of teh state of Israel, the land belonged to arabs. After the war dislocated a large chunk of arabs, the land was confiscated and noew belongs to israel. If you believe that might makes right in that part of the world then sure, the land belongs to whoever can hold it against all assailants. But one day that worm will turn and if you rely on that sort of rationale for your property rights then you have no argument when someone comes along and takes your land away from you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethics-of-israeli-settlements/554116.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethics-of-israeli-settlements/554116.md?page=16)