# Ethics when your kid wrecks another person's car **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 8, 2015, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethics-when-your-kid-wrecks-another-persons-car/714560 "2015-03-08T23:48:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2015, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethics-when-your-kid-wrecks-another-persons-car/714560/41 "2015-03-09T19:03:37Z")
> [@Randolph](#): > > Also, buy the kid some condoms. You win the thread. Bravo, Sir. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2015, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethics-when-your-kid-wrecks-another-persons-car/714560/42 "2015-03-09T19:20:38Z")
Learned something new - didn’t know insurance follows the car. I assumed it was the opposite - my insurance follows me and I am insured to drive any vehicle - so if I wreck someone else’s vehicle it’s my insurance first. Apparently that’s wrong. How does it work for car rentals then? In any case - yeah the boy’s parents should cover the deductible and chalk up any other increases to lessons learned. ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2015, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethics-when-your-kid-wrecks-another-persons-car/714560/43 "2015-03-09T19:21:18Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Disagree (to a degree). As others have said, M asked C to drive, and asked that he drive her car. Some, possibly a lot, of the financial responsibility of the accident is on M. If C insisted on using her car then the situation would be different. I don’t actually see in the OP that she asked him to drive her car–I see that she asked him to drive, and that they were in her car, but I don’t see any direct indication that she specifically asked that he drive her car. It’s possible that she specifically made that request, but it’s also possible that they have always defaulted to taking her car, and even when she started asking him to drive they automatically got into her car out of sheer habit. Or hell, they may have reached a joint decision to take her car because the weather was lousy and they didn’t want to get stuck in the cold if his old beater broke down. Who bears financial responsibility in those cases? I think who asked who to do what with whose property is a moot point, honestly. If I wrecked someone else’s car, I’d report it to my own insurance, let them fix the car and take the premium hit that goes with having a wreck. Of course, the premium hit as a middle-aged woman is going to be a lot lower than the hit as a late-teen/early-twenties boy–which is probably why C’s dad isn’t telling him to just report it to his own insurance and be done. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2015, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethics-when-your-kid-wrecks-another-persons-car/714560/44 "2015-03-09T19:24:45Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Learned something new - didn’t know insurance follows the car. I assumed it was the opposite - my insurance follows me and I am insured to drive any vehicle - so if I wreck someone else’s vehicle it’s my insurance first. Apparently that’s wrong. > > How does it work for car rentals then? > > In any case - yeah the boy’s parents should cover the deductible and chalk up any other increases to lessons learned. Each policy is different, but from what I’ve seen, your rental vehicle is primary with your insurance secondary. What that means is if you get into an accident your adjuster will request a copy of your rental agreement showing no additional insurance was purchased. If there isn’t any addition insurance then your personal insurance kicks in. Let’s say you did 2k worth of damage to your rental vehicle. If you carry collision coverage then your insurance will send a check for the cost of the repairs, minus your deductible, to the rental company. So they’d send, let’s say Enterprise, a check for $1500 and Enterprise would collect the other 500 from you. You want real fun? Start reading about “permissive use” and “excluded drivers.” ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2015, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethics-when-your-kid-wrecks-another-persons-car/714560/45 "2015-03-09T19:29:43Z")
> [@CrazyCatLady](#): > > I think who asked who to do what with whose property is a moot point, honestly. If I wrecked someone else’s car, I’d report it to my own insurance, let them fix the car and take the premium hit that goes with having a wreck. Of course, the premium hit as a middle-aged woman is going to be a lot lower than the hit as a late-teen/early-twenties boy–which is probably why C’s dad isn’t telling him to just report it to his own insurance and be done. In most, if not all, states it doesn’t matter if you report it to your insurance company. Example: So Clarence was driving Madeline’s car and he wrecked it. Clarence reports the claim to Geico. Geico will find out he was driving a car not on his policy. Geico will figure out who car it belongs to. They’ll submit a claim to Travelers (or whatever). Once the claim has been opened and Geico finds that Travelers has valid coverage Geico will close down their claim. Travelers will code it as an at-fault collision and pay for the cost of the repairs minus the deductible. At no point does the insurance company care 1: Who the insured wants to pay for the damage or 2: who pays the deductible. So even if Clarence wanted Geico to pay the claim, they won’t if they don’t have to. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2015, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethics-when-your-kid-wrecks-another-persons-car/714560/46 "2015-03-09T19:34:24Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > C’s father’s position (let’s call him R) is that C is 100% responsible for the accident. He wrecked the car. So even though he truly cannot afford it, R is going to pay the $3k and C is going to pay him back over time. > > I, personally, thought that it would be fairer for C to pay the deductible, or if they want to be nice, split it. Obviously C is at fault for wrecking the car. M is at fault for letting someone else drive her car, and for getting so many tickets that she’s on the verge of losing her driver’s license and insurance, which is why she wasn’t behind the wheel. > > IMO, they all pay good money to buy insurance so that the maximum any of them will be out is the deductible (in this case $1000). Covering accidents like this is what insurance is for. The fact that M’s parents don’t want to involve insurance, because of M’s crappy driving record, isn’t C’s fault. I’ve got no issues with making C paying the deductible. But for him to fork over the entire $3k, while she pays nothing, seems unfair. IMO, they were both at fault and they both need to feel pain, if for no other reason than to reinforce that they need to slow down before they kill someone. > > Anyway, that’s why I think that, at worst, they should split it down the middle. C’s father adamantly, violently disagrees with me. He practically accused me of being a bad person for saying that I’d come back with an offer to pay half. He kept saying, “C was DRIVING. He wrecked their care. I don’t care about the law. I’m talking ETHICS.” > > So I said, “ETHICALLY, C did the right thing by having insurance. The fact that they don’t want to involve insurance isn’t his fault.” > > “Then he shouldn’t have been driving their car.” > > So I asked, “What if the car had been a luxury car and the damages were $5,000, or $10,000. Do you think that C should have had to personally pay back 10 grand to fix their car?” > > “Well, no. Then we’d have to involve the insurance.” > > “Why? What happened to your ethics?” > > “My ethics are that I don’t have 10 grand. I do have 3 grand.” > > “So basically the ethics of the situation change, based on the driver’s father’s bank account. That makes sense.” Evidently he also finds it ethical to collude in hiding the accident from M’s insurance… ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2015, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethics-when-your-kid-wrecks-another-persons-car/714560/47 "2015-03-09T19:49:35Z")
> [@RandMcnally](#): > > At no point does the insurance company care 1: Who the insured wants to pay for the damage or 2: who pays the deductible. So even if Clarence wanted Geico to pay the claim, they won’t if they don’t have to. Nobody questions this logic when it comes to houses, though. If someone comes over to your house and accidentally burns it down, nobody would think to submit a claim against that person’s homeowner’s policy. ---
**Author:** ![tim-n-va](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim-n-va/32/3001_2.png) [@tim-n-va](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim-n-va)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2015, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethics-when-your-kid-wrecks-another-persons-car/714560/48 "2015-03-09T20:17:25Z")
Assuming M is named on the policy and gave C permission to drive it, it is up to the owner of the car (and their insurance) to pay for the damages. If C’s parents want to pay the deductible or even the entire amount, they certainly can but they have no moral or ethical requirement. However, people do things they aren’t obligated to do in order to maintain relationships. The increase in premiums is a tough one because the increase will be at the next renewal based on everything relevant that has happened since the last renewal. It will change at the next renewal based on events in that interval. ---
**Author:** ![Honey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honey/32/5074_2.png) [@Honey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honey)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2015, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethics-when-your-kid-wrecks-another-persons-car/714560/49 "2015-03-09T20:35:22Z")
> [@RandMcnally](#): > > Each policy is different, but from what I’ve seen, your rental vehicle is primary with your insurance secondary. What that means is if you get into an accident your adjuster will request a copy of your rental agreement showing no additional insurance was purchased. If there isn’t any addition insurance then your personal insurance kicks in. > > Let’s say you did 2k worth of damage to your rental vehicle. If you carry collision coverage then your insurance will send a check for the cost of the repairs, minus your deductible, to the rental company. So they’d send, let’s say Enterprise, a check for $1500 and Enterprise would collect the other 500 from you. > > You want real fun? Start reading about “permissive use” and “excluded drivers.” Almost. They wouldn’t collect a deductible from the insured. When your insurance pays to fix a car you have damaged, you pay no deductible. You only pay a deductible if your insurance fixes your own car. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2015, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethics-when-your-kid-wrecks-another-persons-car/714560/50 "2015-03-09T20:42:52Z")
> [@Honey](#): > > Almost. They wouldn’t collect a deductible from the insured. When your insurance pays to fix a car you have damaged, you pay no deductible. You only pay a deductible if your insurance fixes your own car. If they fix a rental vehicle it is paid via your Collison coverage, therefor the deductible applies. If something is paid out of liability property damage, then the insured does not pay a deductible. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2015, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethics-when-your-kid-wrecks-another-persons-car/714560/51 "2015-03-09T20:59:39Z")
> [@RandMcnally](#): > > According to the insurance company, Clarence has no repsonsibility whatsoever for the deductible. Or anything, really. Even if he insisted on driving. Heck, even if he went to the grocery store without her in the car he still wouldn’t have any obligation to pay. I agree, I’m talking about ethics, not legality. If I wrecked a friend’s car after borrowing it I would do everything I could to make them whole. If that meant paying the deductible, paying for the repair, whatever. Legally, the owner of the car bears the responsibility. If I was driving the car, stopped at a light and got hit by an uninsured driver, or by a hit and run, or any accident where I wasn’t at fault I’m not sure I’d feel the same responsibility to make the car owner whole. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2015, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethics-when-your-kid-wrecks-another-persons-car/714560/52 "2015-03-09T21:10:23Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Evidently he also finds it ethical to collude in hiding the accident from M’s insurance… You are not under any legal or ethical obligation to report an accident to your insurance company. Fewer claims = more profits. The traffic tickets will be discovered, however, because they are part of your driving record. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2015, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethics-when-your-kid-wrecks-another-persons-car/714560/53 "2015-03-09T21:13:02Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > You are not under any legal or ethical obligation to report an accident to your insurance company. Fewer claims = more profits. > > The traffic tickets will be discovered, however, because they are part of your driving record. Your policy might say that you do. Under something like “duties owed” it might say, “Report a claim within 21 days” or something. But that’s company dependent. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2015, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethics-when-your-kid-wrecks-another-persons-car/714560/54 "2015-03-09T21:33:17Z")
If I loaned someone a car and they wrecked it, I would not expect them to pay for the damage. That is why I have insurance on my car. If I loaned someone a car and they wrecked it by being a dumbass, I would stop loaning them my car. If I loaned someone a car and they wrecked it by doing something deliberately awful, like running someone off the road, I would stop being their friend. Part of the responsibility of having a car is being responsible for anyone driving it with my permission. The car is my obligation. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2015, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethics-when-your-kid-wrecks-another-persons-car/714560/55 "2015-03-09T21:55:14Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > If I loaned someone a car and they wrecked it, I would not expect them to pay for the damage. That is why I have insurance on my car. > > If I loaned someone a car and they wrecked it by being a dumbass, I would stop loaning them my car. > > If I loaned someone a car and they wrecked it by doing something deliberately awful, like running someone off the road, I would stop being their friend. > > Part of the responsibility of having a car is being responsible for anyone driving it with my permission. The car is my obligation. This is how I view it as well. When we road tripped in college, that’s exactly the deal we had. Luckily, we talked about it beforehand so there’d be no confusion. (And an accident did happen once on a road trip with the guys that I was not involved in. The car owner accepted the hit to insurance, but the passengers did all split the deductible, at least.) ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2015, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethics-when-your-kid-wrecks-another-persons-car/714560/56 "2015-03-10T00:14:15Z")
> [@RandMcnally](#): > > Your policy might say that you do. Under something like “duties owed” it might say, “Report a claim within 21 days” or something. > > But that’s company dependent. A time limit on reporting a claim isn’t the same as being required to report any accident. ---
**Author:** ![Honey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honey/32/5074_2.png) [@Honey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honey)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2015, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethics-when-your-kid-wrecks-another-persons-car/714560/57 "2015-03-10T02:24:56Z")
> [@RandMcnally](#): > > If they fix a rental vehicle it is paid via your Collison coverage, therefor the deductible applies. > > If something is paid out of liability property damage, then the insured does not pay a deductible. This just happened to my mom. She had a rental car while her car was being repaired. My lovely daughter took the rental car and damaged it. Mom’s insurance covered, no deductible applied. If fact, she doesn’t even have collision on her car. ---
**Author:** ![Honey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honey/32/5074_2.png) [@Honey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honey)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2015, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethics-when-your-kid-wrecks-another-persons-car/714560/58 "2015-03-10T02:46:32Z")
> [@RandMcnally](#): > > If they fix a rental vehicle it is paid via your Collison coverage, therefor the deductible applies. > > If something is paid out of liability property damage, then the insured does not pay a deductible. My liability coverage fixes the rental car so no deductible applies. I see. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2015, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethics-when-your-kid-wrecks-another-persons-car/714560/59 "2015-03-10T02:49:44Z")
> [@Honey](#): > > This just happened to my mom. She had a rental car while her car was being repaired. My lovely daughter took the rental car and damaged it. Mom’s insurance covered, no deductible applied. If fact, she doesn’t even have collision on her car. I am genuinely confused by this and goes against everything I’ve experienced. Why would the insurance company pay for the rental vehicle if there’s no coverage? Liability property damage covers property done to another party. Collision covers your own vehicle, regardless of fault. If she had collision on her vehicle being repaired her coverage would transfer to the rental. Maybe she bought additional coverage? Rented the car with a credit card and one of the perks is coverage? I’m honestly not sure. Hmm…interesting. I wish I had all the information for my own edification. I’m weird. I genuinely enjoy auto insurance. I find it fascinating. I found this via Huffington Post: What is this “primary coverage with a third party?” Simply: It is a separate policy that protects you when you rent cars. Maybe you are protected with your credit card and your auto insurance policy, but if you get into an accident and have primary coverage elsewhere, you can leave your insurer out of the loop entirely, avoiding any potential rate increases. American Express cardholders can purchase a Premium Rental Car Protection policy for less than the cost of one day’s damage waiver in many destinations. For $24.95 per rental period of up to 42 days – $17.95 if you live in California - you’ve got $100,000 in coverage for damage and theft, plus $100,000 of Accidental Death or Dismemberment coverage, $15,000 for excess medical expenses and up to $5,000 for personal property loss. The real deal here? No deductible. Nada. It’s a good policy. Best of all, it kicks in automatically when you begin your rental using that card. When you do, you’ll be surprised at how easy it is to stop agents in their tracks - most know about the policy. Tell them you’ve got it and they’ll generally understand that they’re dealing with someone who has come prepared. Was it that? ---
**Author:** ![erysichthon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@erysichthon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erysichthon)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2015, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethics-when-your-kid-wrecks-another-persons-car/714560/60 "2015-03-10T05:19:33Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > If I loaned someone a car and they wrecked it, I would not expect them to pay for the damage. That is why I have insurance on my car. > > If I loaned someone a car and they wrecked it by being a dumbass, I would stop loaning them my car. > > If I loaned someone a car and they wrecked it by doing something deliberately awful, like running someone off the road, I would stop being their friend. > > Part of the responsibility of having a car is being responsible for anyone driving it with my permission. The car is my obligation. This is exactly how I see it, and you phrased it far more clearly and concisely than I would have. I would only add that C, a college freshman, is ostensibly a legal adult; his parents are **absolutely not responsible** for his actions, neither legally nor ethically. It is grossly inappropriate for M’s parents to ask C’s parents to cover the damages, and it’s particularly appalling that their motivation for doing so is their daughter’s shitty driving record. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethics-when-your-kid-wrecks-another-persons-car/714560.md?page=2)