# ethnic backrounds **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 17, 2009, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-backrounds/503291 "2009-07-17T01:41:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7993a0/32.png) [@Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamaika_a_jamaikaiake)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-backrounds/503291/21 "2009-07-17T05:30:03Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I’ve always disliked the phrase “Native American”, although I suppose it’s more accurate than “Indian”. – [QUOTE=Russell Means] We were enslaved as American Indians, we were colonized as American Indians and we will gain our freedom as American Indians and then we will call ourselves any damn thing we choose. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-backrounds/503291/22 "2009-07-17T06:12:28Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > However, I do get mildly annoyed by the American\* practice of referring to oneself as Irish/Polish/German/Kazakh, etc. While it does seem to be an odd American habit it has been my experience that most of us don’t mean it literally. If an American says he’s Irish he’s really just talking about his family background. I only met one person who was an American and literally believed herself to be Scottish but she was a complete loon. She did amuse a Welshman at the part with her claims to being Scottish but quickly pissed him off when she started talking smack about the queen. (It was a pretty cool party.) ---
**Author:** ![ivn1188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@ivn1188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivn1188)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-backrounds/503291/23 "2009-07-17T08:29:02Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Allow me to explain how the English language works. > > When you’re describing something, the adjective generally precedes the noun. So, for example, you would say, “the red wagon,” rather than “the wagon which is red.” This word order is purely a quirk of linguistic evolution. It in no way implies that “red” is more important than “wagon” when describing the object. Wrong. The red big ball sounds wrong. The big red ball sounds right. There are literally hundreds or even thousands of psychology studies that back up the fact that size is more important to our brains than is color. Almost all languages tend to reflect this bias, and other similar biases as well. While your example is different in that the fact of it being a wagon might be more important than the fact of it being red, I feel your statement was overly general. Especially when it comes to describing one’s perceived ancestry, the word “American” is pretty meaningless. You note that we don’t usually refer to ourselves as, say, an Irish-American human, because the human part is so general that it doesn’t even need to be said. Ask yourself why it’s African-American rather than American-African. The answer, of course, is that “African” gives us the most information in context, and comes out first. And the rule is followed across most languages. The OP is a fucking retard, true, but your glib analysis of language is just as uneducated, misleading, and wrong as the OP. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-backrounds/503291/24 "2009-07-17T08:43:54Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I’m not on board with the OP, who is an idiot. > > However, I do get mildly annoyed by the American\* practice of referring to oneself as Irish/Polish/German/Kazakh, etc. > > Sorry, but you’re not really Irish if you’ve never lived there. You’re certainly not Irish if you’ve never even been there. You are an _American of Irish descent_. Live with it. > > \*it’s not exclusively an American practice, of course, but it doesn’t bother me if, say, Australians do it, since I don’t have to hear it. Hell, my family has been here since the early 1600s on 3/4 of me, and the last quarter since the late 1700s … I am fully american. I have welsh, manx, scots, german, dutch and accadian french contributing to me … but I am as american as you can get without belonging to a tribe. mrAru shares most of my tribal background from europe[no accadian] with the addition of a soupcon of american indian [mohecan] way back in the late 1700s. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-backrounds/503291/25 "2009-07-17T10:45:18Z")
When I say I’m Irish American, I don’t mean that I’m Irish. I mean that I’m a member of the culture of “Irish American” people. Eg, the term is one unit, not two. Irish Americans (and the Scotch-Irish especially) have a long, checkered, and visible past in this country, and have somewhat visible ethnic traits and traditions. (Note that Scotch-Irish is a uniquely American term and has little to nothing to do with Scotch ancestry.) What would you suggest people of a shared ethnicity and background call themselves? ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bb73d2/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Joe_Meager)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-backrounds/503291/26 "2009-07-17T14:05:20Z")
I’m an Eastern Hemisphereian of Western Hemisphereian descent. And proud of it. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-backrounds/503291/27 "2009-07-17T14:32:10Z")
One of my parents was from American Samoa, the other was from regular Samoa. I currently live in America. I’m American Samoan Samoan American. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-backrounds/503291/28 "2009-07-17T14:45:35Z")
[QUOTE=Bo Diddley] “Say, where you from?” “South America.” “Whazzat?” “I said, South America.” “You don’t look like no South American to me!” “I’m \*still \*from South America.” “What part?” “South Texas.” "HA _HAAA!_ " [/QUOTE] – ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-backrounds/503291/29 "2009-07-17T14:55:31Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Right, so stealing from **Miller** (who said what I wanted to before this got to the Pit) one is a(n) [del]wagon which is red[/del] American of Irish descent or a(n) [del]red wagon[/del] Irish-American. You seem to have confused me with the OP. I don’t mind the usage _Placish-American_, because it means _American of Placish descent_. It only annoys me when people refer to themselves as, simply, _Placish_. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-backrounds/503291/30 "2009-07-17T15:09:20Z")
_Placish-American?_ Don’t get me started on that group of wastrels. Buncha no-account bums, they are. They should all be forcibly deported back to where they came from! ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-backrounds/503291/31 "2009-07-17T15:09:32Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > When I say I’m Irish American, I don’t mean that I’m Irish. I mean that I’m a member of the culture of “Irish American” people. Eg, the term is one unit, not two. Irish Americans (and the Scotch-Irish especially) have a long, checkered, and visible past in this country, and have somewhat visible ethnic traits and traditions. (Note that Scotch-Irish is a uniquely American term and has little to nothing to do with Scotch ancestry.) Exactly. There are definitely ethnic subcultures like Irish-American, Polish-American, Mexican-American, and the such that people readily identify with and self-label as such. There’s nothing wrong with celebrating your heritage and identifying yourself as a member of this subculture if you want to. I personally have a strong Polish heritage that I keep (language, food, some traditions) and I self-identify as a Polish-American if I feel the need to self-identify as anything. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-backrounds/503291/32 "2009-07-17T15:39:06Z")
I have to admit I don’t fully “get” the Russell Means quote. Why would you call yourself by the name the oppressor gave you? But I admit to some personal bias, since the Indians from India were Indians first! That’s not to say I get mad or offended when NA call themselves Indians, I can share the term…it does make for a bit of confusing scenario. American Indians sounds lovely though but it results for me saying “Indian Indians” a lot which just sounds silly. All that aside, I understand both points of view. I was not born in this country and I consider myself fully American and not mixed - but I also understand keeping in touch with one’s roots. I do agree that if you haven’t ever been to your ancestral country, how does that make you of that country? Wouldn’t it be “Irish descent, American nationality?” But again, I’m not offended by people saying Irish-American. And on the other hand I personally would not even think of saying Asian American or Indian American (now THAT sounds weird.) Basically, it’s a nuanced issue and not so easy as the OP makes it out to be. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-backrounds/503291/33 "2009-07-17T15:39:52Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > When I say I’m Irish American, I don’t mean that I’m Irish. I mean that I’m a member of the culture of “Irish American” people. Eg, the term is one unit, not two. Irish Americans (and the Scotch-Irish especially) have a long, checkered, and visible past in this country, and have somewhat visible ethnic traits and traditions. (Note that Scotch-Irish is a uniquely American term and has little to nothing to do with Scotch ancestry.) > > What would you suggest people of a shared ethnicity and background call themselves? I had a Scotch-Irish grandmother. (Although Scots-Irish is now the preferred term; perhaps a group descended from so many moonshiners thought “Scotch” would give people the wrong idea.) The phrase was invented by the Irish-Americans descended from Ulster Protestants–so they wouldn’t get confused with the Wretched Refuse flooding the country after the Great Famine. Many of those Ulster Protestants _were_ descended from Scots sent by the English to settle Ireland & keep the natives down. Of course, if go you back far enough, the “Scots” were Irish who settled Pictland… That grandmother married a descendant of said Wretched Refuse Bog Trotters. He died just as I was born, so I never met him. And my father’s parents came from East Galway; I was almost baptized “Bridget” but my parents picked a more Lace Curtain option. So I’m greatly interested my ethnic background, whether checkered or plaid. But I’m a voting, tax-paying American whose family is full of men who served their country. How odd that the posters most vehement about rejecting ethnicity are also the worst at communicating in English! ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-backrounds/503291/34 "2009-07-17T15:56:04Z")
I’ve never liked the term “Indian” for the indigenous peoples of North America, simply because it’s not accurate. India is a big country in Asia. “Indian” should refer to people from India. The other group should have a different moniker- Native Americans, or if you insist on having the Indian part in there, Amerindians. That way, everything is neat and tidy and less confusing. But what do I know? I’m a Caucasian-Jewish-American. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-backrounds/503291/35 "2009-07-17T16:02:28Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > When I say I’m Irish American, I don’t mean that I’m Irish. I mean that I’m a member of the culture of “Irish American” people. Eg, the term is one unit, not two. Irish Americans (and the Scotch-Irish especially) have a long, checkered, and visible past in this country, and have somewhat visible ethnic traits and traditions. (Note that Scotch-Irish is a uniquely American term and has little to nothing to do with Scotch ancestry.) > > What would you suggest people of a shared ethnicity and background call themselves? Scotch Irish means an irish laddy who like single malt? Scots Irish is actually proper for Dalriadan Irish that took boats over to the western coast of scotland and settled and became lowland scots =) ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-backrounds/503291/36 "2009-07-17T16:04:08Z")
My wife was born in Chicago. However, she is of Asian decent. When meeting her, people are always asking her where she is from, and they don’t mean Chicago. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-backrounds/503291/37 "2009-07-17T16:26:48Z")
I’m Canadian. Beyond that is need-to-know. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-backrounds/503291/38 "2009-07-17T16:58:18Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > When I say I’m Irish American, I don’t mean that I’m Irish. I mean that I’m a member of the culture of “Irish American” people. Eg, the term is one unit, not two. Irish Americans (and the Scotch-Irish especially) have a long, checkered, and visible past in this country, and have somewhat visible ethnic traits and traditions. Well-said. Here are some things that Irish-Americans are prone to do: –Give their children Irish-ish names –Wear claddagh rings and Celtic knot jewelry –Make jokes about potatoes and drinking –Visit Ireland and try to see some long-lost relatives –Have refrigerator magnets that depict the county that their ancestors came from. –Read _Angela’s Ashes_ and get even weepier than the non-Irish-Americans who read _Angela’s Ashes_ Hell, there are Irish shops all over the place. It ain’t Irish Irish people that are keeping them in business. (There’s one a few blocks from my house. If I ever want an Irish fisherman’s sweater or some Belleek china, I’m covered. ) > [@Anaamika](#): > > I have to admit I don’t fully “get” the Russell Means quote. Why would you call yourself by the name the oppressor gave you? But I admit to some personal bias, since the Indians from India were Indians first! That’s not to say I get mad or offended when NA call themselves Indians, I can share the term…it does make for a bit of confusing scenario. American Indians sounds lovely though but it results for me saying “Indian Indians” a lot which just sounds silly. Both “Indian” and “Native American” are inaccurate. And both terms were given by “the oppressor.” Ideally, we’d refer to people by their tribe, but that’s not always possible, and we do need a term for the overall population of…them. Indian is a better term than Native American. Everybody knows that “Indian” is a total misnomer, but it’s the misnomer that we’re used to. The whole “Christopher Columbus thought he was in India at first so that’s why we call them Indians even though it’s wrong” thing is taught to every little kid in America. It’s easier to differentiate between American Indians and Indian Indians than Native Americans and people-who-were-born-here. It’s not as confusing as it could be because it’s common knowledge that you do have to differentiate between them, especially as the Asian Indian population of the U.S. grows. (If you called someone who lives in Jersey “Indian,” the default assumption for most people would be Asian Indian anyway.) If it’s not completely obvious from context, it’s easy enough to say “Indian American,” “Asian Indian,” or even “Indian Indian.” I agree that the latter is kind of silly, but it works. Also, if Sam was from India, you’d probably say he’s “Indian.” If Sam was from the reservation, you’d probably say he’s “an Indian.” But I do see how it might annoy you. (While we’re on the subject, do you think Indians tend to be offended by the dot/feather thing?) > [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > But what do I know? I’m a Caucasian-Jewish-American. I think it’s interesting that some people call themselves Jewish Americans and other call themselves American Jews. I’m the former. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-backrounds/503291/39 "2009-07-17T17:05:12Z")
I don’t really call myself anything IRL, because conversations about my nationality and conversations about my religion don’t usually crop up in the same context. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-backrounds/503291/40 "2009-07-17T18:24:02Z")
> [@ivn1188](#): > > Ask yourself why it’s African-American rather than American-African. The answer, of course, is that “African” gives us the most information in context, and comes out first. And the rule is followed across most languages. I admit, I’m no linguist. I’ve only ever studied two non-English languages in my life: Spanish, and Latin. And in both these languages, what you’ve just posted is not true. In Spanish, the adjective follows the noun - when they talk about the big river, it’s the Rio Grande, not the Grande Rio. And in Latin, you can put the words into any order you want. I don’t know how it works with the rest of the Romance or Germanic languages, to say nothing of non-European language groups, but I very strongly question your contention that this is how “most” languages work, and that this order is directly derived by the function of the human consciousness. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-backrounds/503291.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-backrounds/503291.md?page=3)