# Ethnic Jews v European Settlers Jews **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 9, 2010, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-jews-v-european-settlers-jews/538806 "2010-05-09T10:04:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-jews-v-european-settlers-jews/538806/21 "2010-05-09T18:24:14Z")
Posts like this are very, very useful actually tom. Many of us have pointed out that to some, the issue isn’t borders or geography or a proper negotiated compromise, but the existence of Israel itself. Besides, those damn mercantile Jews… they’ve got some in-store microwave ovens and custom kitchen delivery. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-jews-v-european-settlers-jews/538806/22 "2010-05-09T18:32:03Z")
Well, bookmark this thread and link to it when the topic arises in the future. I was battling this nonsense when [melvig.org](http://melvig.org) was popular among some posters and I really am not looking forward to patiently pointing out the thousands of errors of fact in the latest wave. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-jews-v-european-settlers-jews/538806/23 "2010-05-09T19:00:14Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > [FONT=Webdings]¯[/FONT] > Jews for nothing and Czechs for freee! > [FONT=Webdings]¯[/FONT] Good thing I already cashed all my Czechs, then. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-jews-v-european-settlers-jews/538806/24 "2010-05-09T19:10:57Z")
It really is interesting, it almost serves as a mini-encyclopedia of weird anti-Israel beliefs. The use of the Khazar myth is, in and of itself, quite interesting and wide spread. [ > [@](#): > > It is one of the great ironies of the 21st century that anti-Zionists and anti-Semites on both the Left and the Right, have returned to racialist arguments against Jews that most of us thought had died out after World War II. > > One of the most bizarre aspects of this “re-racializing” of anti-Semitism is the role played by the Khazar myth. > > The newly fashionable Khazar mythology holds that modern day Ashkenazim, and especially the European leadership of the Zionist movement, are not Jews at all in the racial sense, but rather descendents from non-Jewish Khazars; therefore, the Khazar “theorists” claim, Zionists and Israelis have no legitimate claims to the Land of Israel. > > It would be hard to exaggerate how widespread the misuse of the Khazar myth is among those seeking to delegitimize Israel and Jews today. A recent investigation showed nearly 30,000 websites using the Khazar “theory” as a bludgeon against Israel and Zionism. > […] > Likewise, the Swedish archaeologist Bozena Werbart, an expert on the Khazars, wrote: “In the Khazar kingdom, Koestler wanted to see the origin of the eastern European Jewry. Nevertheless, all the historical and linguistic facts contradicted his theories.” > […] > The racialism once again in vogue holds that Jews would only have legitimate claims to the right of self-determination in their homeland if they were appropriately Semitic from a racial point of view. Palestine is part of the Semitic racial lebensraum and those who do not possess the correct pure racial markings have no business being there. Racial purity is suddenly the new basis for national rights. ]([http://www.spme.net/cgi-bin/articles.cgi?ID=2220](http://www.spme.net/cgi-bin/articles.cgi?ID=2220)) ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-jews-v-european-settlers-jews/538806/25 "2010-05-09T20:06:46Z")
**FinnAgain** : Wow, it’s that widespread? That’s demoralizing… ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-jews-v-european-settlers-jews/538806/26 "2010-05-09T20:18:48Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Good thing I already cashed all my Czechs, then. Old lawyer joke: A lawyer’s friend from the Czech Republic was visiting him in the States. The men decided to go hiking, and ran afoul of two bears - one male, one female. Before they could flee, the male bear swallowed the lawyer’s friend whole. Hoping that his friend might still be alive, the lawyer ran and found a park ranger. He brought the ranger back to the clearing where they’d run afoul of the bears. “Quickly! Shoot the male!” the lawyer shouted. His friend would be saved! There was still time! Without hesitation, the ranger shot the female bear, and turned to walk away. 'Why did you do that?!" the lawyer demanded. “My friend was in the other bear!” “Yes, I heard you,” the ranger replied. “But who would believe a lawyer who says the Czech is in the male?” Thank you, I’ll be here all week. Try the veal! Also - has anyone else noticed that the more stridently anti-Israel a poster is, the greater their difficulty in complying with the SDMB’s norms with regard to grammar, typography, and so on? ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-jews-v-european-settlers-jews/538806/27 "2010-05-09T20:19:08Z")
> [@Nancarrow](#): > > Hello **Marmite Lover**. I love Marmite too. I hope your screed does not bring Marmite into disrepute. Here are my thoughts on your OP: > > 1. TLDR > > 2. But it sure has some pretty colours! > > 3. This is a message board. Who is Stephen, and why are you writing a letter to him on a message board? > > 4. You link to a blog at the end. Is this post just a transcript of a blog entry there? I suppose I could go and see, but it’s called ‘jewsfornothing’. I’m not sure what to expect… perhaps a Talmud-inspired promotion of Nihilism ("I mean, say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it’s an ethos. ") But I think it’s better for my remaining scraps of mental health if I don’t click the link. > > I would NOT like to subscribe to your newsletter. No idea what TDLR means sorry. I copied a blog post from the website at the bottom. I came across it as I Googled for Netanyahu’s real name, and his fathers name led me to that page. I have no idea about the blog because I only read two entries the first and last so I have no idea what the persons beliefs are but I did notice they mentioned Jonah and reading the bible in their very first entry in the archive so assume they are Christian? I wasn’t really interested in them, but in the post about the names and how they changed all their names and none were Hebrew or Middle Eastern. Keep eating Marmite. It is good for you:D ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-jews-v-european-settlers-jews/538806/28 "2010-05-09T20:19:56Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Anyone who loves marmite is obviously mad, evil and perverted. In any case I think we need a new crusade to sort it all out. Where’s Urban II when you need him?! Eh - if it went true to form, the new Crusade would just end up sacking the Yuengling brewery in Pennsylvania. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-jews-v-european-settlers-jews/538806/29 "2010-05-09T20:22:38Z")
> [@Marmite\_Lover](#): > > No idea what TDLR means sorry. > > I copied a blog post from the website at the bottom. I came across it as I Googled for Netanyahu’s real name, and his fathers name led me to that page. I have no idea about the blog because I only read two entries the first and last so I have no idea what the persons beliefs are but I did notice they mentioned Jonah and reading the bible in their very first entry in the archive so assume they are Christian? > I wasn’t really interested in them, but in the post about the names and how they changed all their names and none were Hebrew or Middle Eastern. > Keep eating Marmite. It is good for you:D “TLDR” means “too long - didn’t read.” If you want people to read an OP that’s longer than a few hundred words, it really has to be well-enough written to engage the reader quickly. Also, formatting issues - like walls of text, or bizarre coloring - turn off readers quickly. This is a discussion board, not a blog - while you certainly _can_ have a lengthy OP, it’s generally more useful to post a shorter one, and invite discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-jews-v-european-settlers-jews/538806/30 "2010-05-09T20:26:46Z")
> [@wmfellows](#): > > Mate, > > Long screeds in difficult to read colours are not going to be read. Try for a redo. > > Second, I gather you’re an Egyptian. A wee suggestion, Egyptians having expelled their very very ethnic Jews to Israel have poor standing to make tortured arguments about Jews going to Israel. wrong not Egyptian the guy last night was though ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-jews-v-european-settlers-jews/538806/31 "2010-05-09T20:27:21Z")
> [@Marmite\_Lover](#): > > I wasn’t really interested in them, but in the post about the names and how they changed all their names and none were Hebrew or Middle Eastern. Zo noez! So Muslims/Arabs, just by virtue of their religion or ethnicity, have a right to land that other people own because those others have the wrong religion/ethnicity or their great-great grandparents come from other nations. Land magically becomes "Muslim land’ or “Arab land”, in perpetuity. And people from Indonesia or Iran have more claim to a plot of land than those who bought it, or people from Dubai and Saudai Arabia have more of a claim to a plot of land those those who bought it, due to their religion or ethnicity, respectively. And the Muslims/Arabs who invaded the region and conquered it by force gave their descendants more of a claim to it, in toto, that other people who move to it and buy property there, because they’re of the ‘wrong’ race. And unless you belong to the ‘correct’ race, you have no right to self determination. But we can offer you dhimmi status. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-jews-v-european-settlers-jews/538806/32 "2010-05-09T20:31:19Z")
> [@Marmite\_Lover](#): > > the guy last night was though Huh? ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-jews-v-european-settlers-jews/538806/33 "2010-05-09T20:35:34Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > For the record (an in order to insert some actual facts into this thread), Ashkenazic Jews did indeed use “X ben Y” or “X bat Y” names until the 18th and 19th centuries, when the local Russian, Austrian and German authorities forced them to take European-sounding surnames, often giving them these last names themselves. Immigrants to Israel changing their names to something more Hebrew-sounding was in many ways a matter of discarding their “slave names”, so to speak. > > Anyway, it’s just a name. A Rosenberg by any other name would smell as sweet. I can’t argue but I would have thought that the 'authorities would have actually preferred them to keep their names as it would be easier to identify them. Also if these so called Jews who follow Judaism and God’s laws, would not have cared or dared to change their names whether they were slaves or not. I doubt you’d find a Muslim dare to change his name just because he might get tortured. It’s all about faith and following the orders of the God you believe in. Obviously the Jews faith wasn’t so strong, but we all know that anyway. **" discarding their “slave names”,** What Golda Meir! a slave:D come on be serious ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-jews-v-european-settlers-jews/538806/34 "2010-05-09T20:40:43Z")
> [@wmfellows](#): > > Assimilation. Not much else. Plenty of Arabs who moved to UK back in the old days changed their names to sound more Anglo. Arabs perhaps but Arab Muslims no. Arab Muslims know their ancestors names right back. The guy last night uses 7 when asked who he is. Right back to his great great great great great grandfather. The rest he knows but kinda gets difficult filling in forms I guess. That’s the ones who follow what is says in the Quran that is. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-jews-v-european-settlers-jews/538806/35 "2010-05-09T20:44:48Z")
> [@Marmite\_Lover](#): > > I doubt you’d find a Muslim dare to change his name just because he might get tortured. It’s all about faith and following the orders of the God you believe in. Obviously the Jews faith wasn’t so strong, but we all know that anyway. Maybe it’s because last names have no meaning in Judaism? I mean, they weren’t even AROUND back then! How does changing your name make you LESS faithful? ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-jews-v-european-settlers-jews/538806/36 "2010-05-09T20:44:51Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > **Marmite Lover** , this is the forum for debates. That implies taking an actual position, not posting glurge from nutcase web sites. (Is “[jewsfornothing.wordpress.com](http://jewsfornothing.wordpress.com)” the place where all the sillies from [melvig.org](http://melvig.org) migrated when that site went away?) > > At any rate, you have a few hours to post an actual discussion point, failing which this thread will be closed. > > [/Moderating] okay here you go Are European settlers entitled to live in Palestine and throw Christian and Muslim Palestinians out of their homes to do it when they have no ties or ancestors in the region? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-jews-v-european-settlers-jews/538806/37 "2010-05-09T20:46:03Z")
> [@Marmite\_Lover](#): > > Are European settlers entitled to live in Palestine and throw Christian and Muslim Palestinians out of their homes to do it when they have no ties or ancestors in the region? Ignoring your\*\* horrible\*\* terminology and glaring factual errors, sure, why not. ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-jews-v-european-settlers-jews/538806/38 "2010-05-09T20:49:07Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > **Marmite Lover** , this is the forum for debates. That implies taking an actual position, not posting glurge from nutcase web sites. (Is “[jewsfornothing.wordpress.com](http://jewsfornothing.wordpress.com)” the place where all the sillies from [melvig.org](http://melvig.org) migrated when that site went away?) > > At any rate, you have a few hours to post an actual discussion point, failing which this thread will be closed. > > [/Moderating] Being a moderator I thought was being neutral and moderating. That is if you are wearing your moderating hat. If you are wearing that hat is it appropriate to call another site a nutcase site? Is that statement not in itself inflammatory and inappropriate? It’s not my site but just want to know what the stance here is on moderation and who follows the rules and to what extent. ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-jews-v-european-settlers-jews/538806/39 "2010-05-09T21:00:24Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > “TLDR” means “too long - didn’t read.” If you want people to read an OP that’s longer than a few hundred words, it really has to be well-enough written to engage the reader quickly. Also, formatting issues - like walls of text, or bizarre coloring - turn off readers quickly. > > This is a discussion board, not a blog - while you certainly _can_ have a lengthy OP, it’s generally more useful to post a shorter one, and invite discussion. Thank you for that explanation. I could have posted a few lines and a link but if you say if a piece of text is too long for some readers attention span then what would be the point then. When they link they wouldn’t read it anyway. Shame that. We learn a lot from reading other peoples points of view, or hearing from people in this case who live and talk to people in the region and not people who get their information from Fox media, who never stepped out their own state or country. My colleague told me something I had no idea about so learned something today:D God has the correct felafel recipe! That’s something I’ll certainly be passing onto the people here and my colleague has e mailed that one around. We learn something every day ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-jews-v-european-settlers-jews/538806/40 "2010-05-09T21:11:52Z")
I have made no decision or expressed any position on you as a poster. However, the site to which you linked and which you quoted excessively (in hard to read colors) is a nutcase site. If it were worth the time, I could demolish about 30% of the claims made in that article without even bothering to look up citations and I am sure that I could demolish another 30% if I had to look up information. Note one of their key points: that “Jews” are not really “Jews.” It is an old tale of lies and misdirection that is always employed by anti-semitic bigots. (I can explain what they are doing if you are interested.) Anyone who promotes that sort of nonsense, just as anyone who promotes hoaxes such as The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion, has earned the title nutcase. As a Moderator, I am required to refrain from taking sides between individuals when a fight breaks out, but as a poster, I have no obligation to refrain from pointing out nutcases. One may take a position in opposition to or as a proponent of the creation of Israel and I will respect that position if seriously argued, even when I disagree. If one repeats truly silly nonsense about Khazars, the real history of which has long been know while the silliness has long been debunked, then I am going to note that the nonsense is spread by nutcases. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-jews-v-european-settlers-jews/538806.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-jews-v-european-settlers-jews/538806.md?page=3)