# ethnic slur "welshed." **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [April 20, 2007, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-slur-welshed/400899 "2007-04-20T05:55:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![tmegahee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eb8c5e/32.png) [@tmegahee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tmegahee)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2007, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-slur-welshed/400899/1 "2007-04-20T05:55:50Z")
The word is “welched”, a betting term, meaning to default on payment upon losing a bet. Where did Macolme get his info? ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2007, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-slur-welshed/400899/2 "2007-04-20T12:21:49Z")
Cannot figure out which mailbag article is being referenced, though I have a vague recollection of one. As to the OP, “welch” is a variant of “welsh.” And as a verb it is directly related to stereotyping about the Welsh. See most any dictionary. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![zut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zut/32/2875_2.png) [@zut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zut)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2007, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-slur-welshed/400899/3 "2007-04-20T13:49:09Z")
Here it is: [Why can’t Prince Rainier become a king? (25-Dec-1992)](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_322.html), and it is indeed a column by **Cecil**. In the column, **Cecil** says, in apropos of Monaco’s independence, “during the French Revolution France welshed on the deal.” A comment on the column was posted later: > [@](#): > > As a Welsh-American, I am deeply offended by your use of the ethnic slur “welshed.” What is your factual basis for stereotyping Welsh people as a race who fail to honor their obligations? You owe the people of Wales an immediately apology. --Malcolm Solomon, Palo Alto, California As **DSYoungEsq** says, a dictionary can usually clear up confusion. From [Merriam-Webster](http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=welsh): > [@](#): > > Main Entry: **welsh** > Pronunciation: 'welsh, 'welch > Variant(s): _also_ **welch** /'welch/ > Function: _intransitive verb_ > Etymology: probably from _Welsh_, adjective > 1 _sometimes offensive_ : to avoid payment – used with _on_ > 2 _sometimes offensive_ : to break one’s word : RENEGE > > - welsh·er \*noun, sometimes offensive \* Also from [Merriam-Webser](http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=welch): > [@](#): > > Main Entry: **welch** > _variant of_ WELSH ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2007, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-slur-welshed/400899/4 "2007-04-20T13:53:33Z")
[QUOTE=zut] As **DSYoungEsq** says, a dictionary can usually clear up confusion. From [Merriam-Webster](http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=welsh): Also from [Merriam-Webser](http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=welch): [/QUOTE] Nothing in those references mentions a connection to Wales. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2007, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-slur-welshed/400899/5 "2007-04-20T14:07:16Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] Nothing in those references mentions a connection to Wales. [/QUOTE] “Etymology: probably from Welsh, adjective” - the capital letter indicates the proper noun. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2007, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-slur-welshed/400899/6 "2007-04-20T14:09:32Z")
[QUOTE=jjimm] “Etymology: probably from Welsh, adjective” - the capital letter indicates the proper noun. [/QUOTE] I have been searching online for a direct link between welshing on a bet, and Wales. So far, no joy. My Concise O.E.D. says “origin unknown.” ---
**Author:** ![rayh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@rayh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rayh)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2007, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-slur-welshed/400899/7 "2007-04-20T14:12:54Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] Nothing in those references mentions a connection to Wales. [/QUOTE] As someone who is Welsh I did some research of the term, and I believe the terms welch/welsh are connected as an ethnic slur. I thought they just might have been similar words that become connected, but it appears not. Welch is just a corrupted form of Welsh. According to [this](http://www.wordwizard.com/ch_forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=17998) it originated in betting where English bookmakers to avoid paying large debts fled over the border into Wales and were said to have gone Welsh. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2007, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-slur-welshed/400899/8 "2007-04-20T14:15:47Z")
[QUOTE=rayh] As someone who is Welsh I did some research of the term, and I believe the terms welch/welsh are connected as an ethnic slur. I thought they just might have been similar words that become connected, but it appears not. Welch is just a corrupted form of Welsh. According to [this](http://www.wordwizard.com/ch_forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=17998) it originated in betting where English bookmakers to avoid paying large debts fled over the border into Wales and were said to have gone Welsh. [/QUOTE] So the slur is directed at the English then. It does refer to Wales, but only as a name of a country, not as a comment on the character of it’s inhabitants. Right? ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2007, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-slur-welshed/400899/9 "2007-04-20T14:17:45Z")
Man, would you folks all settle down? Here, have some toast with cheese sauce on it. Tastes like rabbit! ---
**Author:** ![rayh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@rayh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rayh)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2007, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-slur-welshed/400899/10 "2007-04-20T14:20:01Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] So the slur is directed at the English then. It does refer to Wales, but only as a name of a country, not as a comment on the character of it’s inhabitants. Right? [/QUOTE] Wales as the home of thieves? Someone who reneges on a bet has “gone Welsh”, which implies all Welshmen are thieves or cannot be trusted at least. ---
**Author:** ![rayh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@rayh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rayh)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2007, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-slur-welshed/400899/11 "2007-04-20T14:21:59Z")
[QUOTE=OneCentStamp] Man, would you folks all settle down? Here, have some toast with cheese sauce on it. Tastes like rabbit! [/QUOTE] How dare you! This is a foul calumny. We only use real cheese. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2007, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-slur-welshed/400899/12 "2007-04-20T14:27:30Z")
[QUOTE=rayh] Wales as the home of thieves? Someone who reneges on a bet has “gone Welsh”, which implies all Welshmen are thieves or cannot be trusted at least. [/QUOTE] The English bookies were the thieves. Wales was their destination, simply as the next country over. That’s how I read your cite, anyway. Since my O.E.D says the origin is unknown, I’ll take it over a message board post. 🙂 Speaking of message board posts, here’s one with a completely different explanation: > [@](#): > > Welch on a deal/Welsh on a deal > > To not follow the terms of an agreement. Although many Welsh people regard this phrase as insulting towards the Welsh, the likely etymology is the reverse, as it apparently refers to the poor behaviour of King Edward I of England who refused to honour a treaty (the Treaty of Montgomery (1267)) concluded by his father (Henry III)with Llywelyn ap Gruffydd. From here. [http://www.tes.co.uk/section/staffroom/thread.aspx?story\_id=2344322&path=/opinion/&threadPage=&messagePage=6](http://www.tes.co.uk/section/staffroom/thread.aspx?story_id=2344322&path=/opinion/&threadPage=&messagePage=6) ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2007, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-slur-welshed/400899/13 "2007-04-20T18:03:30Z")
:dubious: I thought “welch” meant to smear with grape jelly? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2007, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-slur-welshed/400899/14 "2007-04-20T20:11:30Z")
“Taffy was a Welshman Taffy was a thief.” Shakespeare’s notion of a Welshman seems to have been different; he seems them as either pedants or phony psychics. > [@](#): > > I thought “welch” meant to smear with grape jelly? …or to be a so-called “Christian” who wants to improve on Jesus’s morals? ---
**Author:** ![Wallenstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b5a626/32.png) [@Wallenstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallenstein)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2007, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-slur-welshed/400899/15 "2007-04-20T20:20:25Z")
It’s from the German verb “_welken_” which means “to fade”.\* Refers to the habit of bookmakers to “fade away” when it’s time to pay out. Sod all to do with the taffs, even though it’s broadly accurate. 😉 \*well, ok… maybe it is, about as valid as any other theory though! ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2007, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-slur-welshed/400899/16 "2007-04-20T21:13:33Z")
From [wordorigins.com](http://wordorigins.com) > [@](#): > > Welch is an archaic form of Welsh, one that pretty much only survives in the sense of to fail to pay out on a lost wager. This usage dates to around 1857 when it appears in the 8 June issue of the Morning Chronicle: > > He got his living by “welching” and taking in the “flats.” > > The origin is obscure, but it undoubtedly originated as an ethnic slur of the Welsh people. > > (Source: Oxford English Dictionary, 2nd Edition) ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2007, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-slur-welshed/400899/17 "2007-04-21T01:44:27Z")
So after all that, we’re not sure whether it’s an ethnic slur or not? What a gyp. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2007, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-slur-welshed/400899/18 "2007-04-21T02:04:33Z")
We know that it is a version of the word “Welsh.” We know that it relates to a practice that is not favorable. We appear unaware for certain how that use of “welsh” came about, though one can draw certain conclusions about probability. With much of the origin of phrases or words, that’s about all one can manage, as **samclem** is often at pains to point out. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2007, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ethnic-slur-welshed/400899/19 "2007-04-21T02:25:44Z")
[QUOTE=John W. Kennedy] Shakespeare’s notion of a Welshman seems to have been different; he seems them as either pedants or **phony psychics.** [/QUOTE] As opposed to…? 😉