# etiquette question **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 2, 2001, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etiquette-question/91091 "2001-11-02T07:23:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![MagicalSilverKey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@MagicalSilverKey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MagicalSilverKey)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etiquette-question/91091/1 "2001-11-02T07:23:14Z")
I decided to put this in IMHO because it could become a “GD lite” question. I hope this is the right spot. When addressing a stranger, to get their attention, which is more appropriate to say? pardon me (or) excuse me I’m not sure there really is any difference. I believe there may be a difference. The following examples are how _I_ feel they should be used appropriately: [li]Pardon me = “May I ask if you to tell me the time, please?”[/li]OTOH [li]Excuse me = “I am so sorry I bumped into you and made you spill your coffee I am an idiot.”[/li] Are the above, proper examples of usage? ---
**Author:** ![MagicalSilverKey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@MagicalSilverKey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MagicalSilverKey)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etiquette-question/91091/2 "2001-11-02T07:24:27Z")
@#$%^! typos… :mad: It’s definitely bedtime! ::harumph:: ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_H](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a5b964/32.png) [@Bill\_H](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_H)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etiquette-question/91091/3 "2001-11-02T07:58:53Z")
Well, if this is an etiquette question, then I believe they are identical. If this is a grammatical question, your differentiation may be correct. ---
**Author:** ![Amazing\_Tiki\_God](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/779978/32.png) [@Amazing\_Tiki\_God](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amazing_Tiki_God)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etiquette-question/91091/4 "2001-11-02T08:13:57Z")
Sounds good either way but I always use sir or madam when addressing a stranger. IMHO it sounds more polite to say it this way and people rarely ever say sir or madam anymore (at least here where I live). ---
**Author:** ![Hemlock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Hemlock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hemlock)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etiquette-question/91091/5 "2001-11-02T08:23:23Z")
IMO, for what it’s worth, “Excuse me…” sounds a bit more confident. “Pardon me…” sounds apologetic. Limp-wristed, indeed. I think in French “Excusez moi…” would be best if you wanted to ask a favor - while “Pardonnez-moi…” would be appropriate if you stepped on their foot. I wouldn’t normally recommend anything on the grounds that “the French do it”, but in this case, I’ll make an exception. If you’ll … pardon me. ---
**Author:** ![FairyChatMom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fairychatmom/32/21906_2.png) [@FairyChatMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FairyChatMom)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etiquette-question/91091/6 "2001-11-02T11:56:41Z")
The only time one may use “Pardon me…” is in conjunction with Grey Poupon… ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etiquette-question/91091/7 "2001-11-02T12:39:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MagicalSilverKey \* > When addressing a stranger, to get their attention, which is more appropriate to say? > > pardon me (or) excuse me > > … The following examples are how _I_ feel they should be used appropriately: > [li]Pardon me = “May I ask if you to tell me the time, please?”[/li]OTOH > [li]Excuse me = “I am so sorry I bumped into you and made you spill your coffee I am an idiot.”[/li] > Are the above, proper examples of usage? They’re very similar. Here in the UK I would attract someone’s attention (e.g. to ask directions, or to get through a crowd) by saying “excuse me”. I would acknowledge a minor infraction (e.g. for burping) by saying “pardon me”. I would apologise (e.g. for bumping or blocking someone) by saying “sorry”. ---
**Author:** ![MagicalSilverKey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@MagicalSilverKey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MagicalSilverKey)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etiquette-question/91091/8 "2001-11-02T14:21:26Z")
:eek: I never thought of it as a grammatical issue. Let’s see what others have yet to say on the matter. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etiquette-question/91091/9 "2001-11-02T14:25:55Z")
According to Judith (“Miss Manners”) Martin, “excuse me” is used for lesser intrusions, such as “excuse me, do you have the correct time?” and “pardon me” for greater ones, as in “pardon me! I didn’t mean to spill boiling water on your lap!” I believe the reasoning is that a “pardon” (as in Presidential) is a much bigger deal than an “excuse.” ---
**Author:** ![Zazie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Zazie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zazie)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etiquette-question/91091/10 "2001-11-02T15:28:57Z")
Hemlock, you cracked me up!! (I am French) You are right I think. Pardonnez-moi, litteraly means Forgive me… ---
**Author:** ![MagicalSilverKey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@MagicalSilverKey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MagicalSilverKey)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etiquette-question/91091/11 "2001-11-02T15:31:44Z")
Ok, I whipped out my Roget’s College Thesaurus excuse, pardon, and so on… are all under the headings of “forgiveness” and “atonement.” Hmmmm… vewy vewy intewesting Should one be asking for forgiveness, for interrupting another? This seems like a pretty grey area to me. I suppose it depends on _ **what** _ a person is _interrupting_, and what the _ **nature** _ of the interruption is. IMHO, forgiveness means asking to amend a **wrong** done to another. If someone interrupted me to ask the time of day, I don’t see there is any “wrong” being done, to be forgiven for. I understand that saying “excuse me” or “pardon me” as in interjectory phrase, is simply a courtesy to show respect for another. Upon thorough analysis, however, it seems a bit drastic. I decided to look under the heading of “neglect” and found some other terms that may also, _possibly_ be appropriate. If one is trying to get another’s attention, it would seem that asking them to “neglect” the plea, would defeat the the whole purpose. 😕 [sub]Maybe I am just being too anal about this.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_H](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a5b964/32.png) [@Bill\_H](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_H)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etiquette-question/91091/12 "2001-11-02T17:41:06Z")
**Eve** , do you have a cite for that? I’m a big Judith Martin fan, and I haven’t heard that one. My take on her teachings is: If you offend someone, apologize. The words are secondary; it’s the apology that’s important. Now on the grammatical side, I do see the distinction **MagicalSilverKey** has proposed, but I’m not an expert (or a fan of experts) there. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etiquette-question/91091/13 "2001-11-02T17:48:18Z")
Bill—If I didn’t read it in her column, then it’s from her 1981 Guide to Etiquette, which is nestled on my bookshelf right between Emily Post and Amy Vanderbilt. ---
**Author:** ![Creaky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e68b1a/32.png) [@Creaky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Creaky)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etiquette-question/91091/14 "2001-11-02T23:45:45Z")
I was taught to say “excuse me” in all cases pertaining, but maybe that’s just me?? ---
**Author:** ![DopeyDave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9bd4f/32.png) [@DopeyDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DopeyDave)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2001, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etiquette-question/91091/15 "2001-11-03T01:15:19Z")
For mine, the phrases have the same meaning, and can be used interchangeably. Although meanings change with time, I find it helpful to study the derivation (is this rational, or evidence of a vain attempt to cling to the past?). I don’t know Latin, but I enjoy interpreting the dictionary etymologies. In Webster’s New World Dictionary, ‘Pardon’ is given as coming from the latin _per_, ‘through’, [hence ‘agency’], and _donare_, ‘give’, as in ‘donation’, suggesting that you want someone to give you something. The implication is that they have the power to restore you to your preferred state by their ‘donation’ (a governer’s pardon would give you your self esteem or freedom back). Of course, often you are asking for something extra, say the time of day, but the request of a pardon is for the interruption, not the favor to come. ‘Excuse’ is given as coming from _ex_, ‘out of’ and _causa_, ‘a charge’, suggesting that you want to be freed from a charge, or blame. So it is sort of the reverse of a pardon, with the same effect: pardon is giving, excuse is taking, each with the aim of returning to the ‘innocent’ state. In both examples mentioned in the OP the words are by far the least important aspect. With the wrong tone and body language, the phrases ‘Excuse me’ and ‘Pardon me’ could come across as arrogant, impatient or mousy. With the right attitude, you could use ‘Hey!’ and not cause offence, particularly when asking the time, but even as an apology for bumping. Sometimes even just the suggestion of a sparkle in the eye would be all you need. I tend to err on the side of a nervous ‘Excuse me’ and get nowhere. Now that you have brought it to my attention, I will try to be more confident and friendly. Really. ---
**Author:** ![MagicalSilverKey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@MagicalSilverKey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MagicalSilverKey)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2001, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etiquette-question/91091/16 "2001-11-03T01:48:15Z")
DopeyDave, that was a fascinating explanation. Thanks. What do the rest of you think of DopeyDave’s analysis? ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_H](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a5b964/32.png) [@Bill\_H](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_H)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2001, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etiquette-question/91091/17 "2001-11-03T03:30:50Z")
I couldn’t find anything in “Miss Manners Rescues Civilization” (1996). In her “Miss Manners’ Guide to Excruciatingly Correct Behavior” (1982), there is this, but I’m not sure if I read it as advice; it’s awfully subtle: > [@](#): > > Dear Miss Manners: > Is it true that “pardon me” is the wrong thing to say – that you have to say “excuse me” instead? Obviously, they both mean the same thing, and take the same time to say. What’s the difference? > > Gentle Reader: > A pardon is more difficult to obtain than an excuse. If you don’t believe Miss Manners about that, ask some of the prominent and supposedly influential people who have failed or even managed to obtain pardons. For ordinary transgressions, it is easier to ask for an excuse.