# Etiquitte for conversing with a pedophile. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 11, 2010, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etiquitte-for-conversing-with-a-pedophile/542855 "2010-06-11T23:16:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Dostoyevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Dostoyevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dostoyevsky)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2010, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etiquitte-for-conversing-with-a-pedophile/542855/41 "2010-06-13T22:11:56Z")
> [@Big T](#): > > ``` > I would offer a compromise. He could still work in helping kids, but do so from literature or from the planning stages, and not actually be in contact with the kids. > > ``` Neat! šŸ™‚ > [@Happy Poster](#): > > I think that the OP could do a much better job releasing him from evangelical christianity than he can from so-called ā€œpaedophilliaā€. I actually wish I could. This is my first choice and a long term goal. Talking him out of a new youth ministry has become my short term goal. Iā€™m not sure if heā€™s gay, repressed, whatever, but I do think the fact that heā€™s single and sexually inactive is putting _stress_ on him. So, regardless of his orientation I think he should find a romantic interest. > [@Happy Poster](#): > > \*Unless the relationship was seriously abusive. In which case, frankly, you should report him to authorities, and not be pissing around here. I really have no way of knowing this. I think this incident probably took place in Japan roughly seven years ago with a kid who was fourteen and, well, you now know as much as I do. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2010, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etiquitte-for-conversing-with-a-pedophile/542855/42 "2010-06-13T22:28:03Z")
> [@Dostoyevsky](#): > > Couldnā€™t be friends? See, I feel the opposite. I think one of the reasons for friendship is to say, ā€œHey stop being stupid.ā€ And now that Iā€™m convinced my gut feeling is valid, Iā€™m gonna grow a pair and do this. As I said in my post, Iā€™d talk to him about it. But if he ignored my warning and continued trying to be in the presence of children I could not stay friends with him. ---
**Author:** ![Drew\_Kit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@Drew\_Kit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drew_Kit)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etiquitte-for-conversing-with-a-pedophile/542855/43 "2010-06-14T00:52:45Z")
"Quote: Originally Posted by Drew Kit Iā€™d recommend being circumspect in handling the matter as he can deny ā€˜your storyā€™ and sue you for defamation. Can you elaborate on this? Last edited by Dostoyevsky; Today at 11:06 AM. " Yes I can elaborate on it from personal experience but at the risk of incriminating myself. I am being charged for warning people that a child-groomer was in their midst. This 30 something guy licked 8 year old daughters of the vunerable single-mothers he seduced. Not penetrative sex, not a matter of consent or whatever, just blatant and repeated lower-level abuse. I also tried talking to him, and then various ways of dealing with his behaviour without involving the police, but in vain since I am now he one charged with a crime. So my advice is donā€™t tackle this yourself, and donā€™t rely on online advice. Just because you are inoccent and well-motivated doesnā€™t mean this wonā€™t be damaging to you. Tread, and comment, lightly. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etiquitte-for-conversing-with-a-pedophile/542855/44 "2010-06-14T01:58:50Z")
Not terribly proud of my earlier contribution. Sorry about that. ---
**Author:** ![Eureka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/74df32/32.png) [@Eureka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eureka)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etiquitte-for-conversing-with-a-pedophile/542855/45 "2010-06-14T02:32:30Z")
> [@Happy\_Poster](#): > > So everyone here seriously thinks that his past behaviour is that awful? Depends. Do I think heā€™d benefit from forgiving himself and moving on with his life and not letting himself be defined by his mistake? Absolutely, especially in context of friendshipwith him or counseling him. But I would not allow/encourage one on one interaction with teens, especially in a spiritual context. On the other hand, I am a Christian. Whether I define myself as an ā€œevangelicalā€ Christian depends on the day. I am deeply and thoroughly hostile to the suggestion to convince someone theyā€™d be better off without God, and only slightly less hostile to the suggestion that I should convince someone theyā€™d be better of without their specific God, especially if that God bears some resemblence to mine. My church is moderately to severely anti-gay, and thatā€™s about where I stand, too. I donā€™t tell people they will go to Hell for Gay sex acts, but Iā€™d be uncomfortable encouraging someone to form an age-appropriate same sex relationship. (And rather ill-suited. Talk about the blind leading the blind! Although Iā€™m not gay, just shy and inexperienced.) ---
**Author:** ![Dostoyevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Dostoyevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dostoyevsky)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etiquitte-for-conversing-with-a-pedophile/542855/46 "2010-06-14T02:47:41Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > Not terribly proud of my earlier contribution. Sorry about that. No worries. šŸ™‚ Topics like this inevitably illicit strong emotions and thatā€™s to be expected. ---
**Author:** ![MsChilePepper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3bc359/32.png) [@MsChilePepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsChilePepper)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etiquitte-for-conversing-with-a-pedophile/542855/47 "2010-06-14T08:54:46Z")
(_Elicit_, not illicit. /pedantry) > [@Otara](#): > > Heā€™s not _necessarily_ deluded about reoffending, many people do just offend the once and have insight. Cite? From EVERYTHING Iā€™ve read and experienced, this is absolutely NOT the case. Predators of this sort offend over and over and over again, every time they have or can create the opportunity, and they simply cannot be reprogrammed or rehabilitated, full stop. > [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Having said that, I donā€™t think he should be working in a position of authority with youth if he is sexually attracted to 14 year olds and acts on it. Esp considering that you need a high degree of trust to work with youth as a counselor. > > Also, from the sounds of it he almost sounds more upset about the fact that he had homosexual contact with someone than that it was with a 14 year old. I agree. Heā€™s more worried about himself, not the damage he did to someone else. Thatā€™s a HUGE red flag. He has no business being anywhere near minors. > [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Mutual or received masturbation is pretty common as ā€œsexā€ for homosexuals as I understand it (for insert tab A into slot B types of reasons). And goading a child into masturbating you is well along the way to committing further offences. Child molesters arenā€™t generally rapists (as in, holding the kid down and forcing it). They use their position and the childā€™s lesser abilities at reasoning to slowly wear down or ā€œseduceā€ the child. They use alcohol and porno to get the kid in the mood, sing praise, talk about how what theyā€™re feeling is normal, etc. and slowly convince the child to start servicing them in sexual ways. That the one kid may have only used his hands on the guy just means that they were early in the process, not that more wasnā€™t desired. > > The question isnā€™t what the guy _has done_ but what he would be liable to do given enough opportunities. Yes, yes, yes! Predators purposefully seek out situations and jobs where they will encounter their prey, just as a crocodile will lurk under the water near the edge of a watering hole, just waiting for a gazelle to get thirsty. I think heā€™s deluding himself, and trying to talk himself into believing that heā€™s ā€œcuredā€ of his unnatural desires. Heā€™s bouncing the idea off you because if he can convince you itā€™s OK, then heā€™s that much closer to believing it himself. > [@MMcgrath](#): > > If heā€™s a good friend, then you might strongly suggest that he discuss everything that happened with a trusted church elder before getting involved with a youth group. If he did this in Japan then he broke the law. If he tells you this, and he knows you are aware of his past actions, then he will take your silence for approval. Donā€™t be silent. I so agree. Do not give him the impression that you condone his behavior. > [@md2000](#): > > My thoughts: > We are born with, or gain VERY early in life, a ā€œroadmapā€ of what attracts us. For most, itā€™s the adult opposite sex; for a few others, the adult same sex. For a few, itā€™s something from pre-pubescent children (pedophilia) to pubescent (hebophilia) to just post-pubescent (ephebophilia) adolescents. Nobody taught you to like what you like, itā€™s instinctual and built in. As a result, you can deny it or control it, live a life of celibacy, or hide in the closet, but you canā€™t change it. > > Iā€™ll agree with the previous posters. If he regrets his encounter, and wants to avoid a repeat performance, surrounding himself with temptations and being an authority figure or even a ā€œrole-modelā€ type of leader is not the smartest course of action. > > Gandhi may have convinced the world that he slept with teen virgins to prove the strength of his chastity, but oddly enough in this day and age, we disbelieve Michael Jackson, for example, when he claims the same love and hands-off with his ā€œspecial friendsā€. > > If this one relatively minor incident has eaten away at your friend for years, why tempt himself more? He may claim his desire to work with and help youngsters is driven by his love for Jesus but is it his love/lust for the kids? I think he is deluding himself and his desire to help is really his desire to be near targets of his affection. > > We typically equate sex offendders with the worst, the ā€œdrag them in the bushes and rapeā€ category; but a lot of them seem to be like any other normal person trying to make connections, genuinely thinking they love the person(s) and wanting to help and be their friend. The trouble is (a) in a position of or near authority he may mistake deferrence to authority for consent, (b) the other person is not mature enough to consent, and (c) a lot of adolescents are confused (the ā€œam I normal?ā€ problem) and not understand what is happening. > > For his own good, he should stay away from temptation. Like the 500 lb man with passing Baskin Robbins, he wants something he really should not have. Tell him that staying as far away from kids as he can is him proving to Jesus how much he truly cares. **holds flaming Bicā„¢ aloft** > [@Mangetout](#): > > Another possibility which can never be completely ruled out is that heā€™s not telling the whole truth about his motives and that heā€™s hoping the youth work will ā€˜accidentallyā€™ lead to further encounters that he knows are not really appropriate. My spidey sense tells me heā€™s absolutely has NOT given you the whole truth. I think itā€™s far more likely that in reality, he did a lot more than some sort of masturbation or fondling with the kid and/or that he preyed on more than one victim. I think heā€™s low-balling you, to see how youā€™ll react. Even if it was just the one kid and just fondling and ā€œno actual sexā€, he had to have worked to seduce the kid and gotten inside his head, which is where the real damage lies. Predators donā€™t just run up on some random kid and start grabbing (usually). Thatā€™s not how it works. Honestly, **Dostoyevsky** , I think youā€™re in over your head here. Itā€™s good that heā€™s confiding in you, because now at least SOMEBODY knows about it. I could be wrong that heā€™s trying to weasel his way back into contact with kids; maybe he really wants help. I think determining that is above your pay grade, though. Your friend does need psychological help, and the higher-ups in his church organization need to know about his past. If he was doing missionary work when this happened, they can and should also be liable for what he did. How you can make certain theyā€™re informed, Iā€™m not sure. Maybe tell him you will go with him to talk to the church people about it, because then itā€™s not just you going behind his back to tell them about his alleged behavior. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etiquitte-for-conversing-with-a-pedophile/542855/48 "2010-06-14T09:28:05Z")
I would say something like this, Dave, I know you have expressed a desire to work with youth. I also know, because you told me, that you once had sexual contact with an adolescent boy. I know you know that that act was incredibly immoral. I know you know that nearly every society considers that act very inappropriate and that many societies would consider it very illegal. As in statutory child molestation serve ten years in prison where people try to stab you for being a child molester illegal. I know you were devastated with guilt over your past action. I know you know that such actions can mess up the whole life of the child involved. I know you work very hard to be a moral man. I would hate to see you destroy your life and destroy the life of a child by making a similar mistake. Even if you are never tempted anymore by such thoughts or desires, I think it would be a terrible decision for you to put yourself in a situation where there was any chance at all of something like this happening. I am not judging you or attacking you, I am giving you advice because I am your friend and I care about you. There are innumerable different ways that you can help people in general and children indirectly that would not involve placing yourself in intimate situations with adolescents. Throughout life, most people are tempted to do things they consider immoral. And nearly everyone slips and makes mistakes. I think it would be a terrible idea for you to put yourself in a situation where you could repeat a mistake that could have such horrible consequences. If you truly care about pleasing God, helping others, and not hurting your fellow man, you should avoid working with adolescents. ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etiquitte-for-conversing-with-a-pedophile/542855/49 "2010-06-14T11:30:50Z")
ā€œCite? From EVERYTHING Iā€™ve read and experienced, this is absolutely NOT the case.ā€ You are probably confusing clinical pedophilia and a child sex assault perpetrator. It is possible to be one without the other. [http://www.journalismcenter.org/resource/child-welfare/more-characteristics-sexual-offenders-pedophiles-non-pedophiles-juveniles](http://www.journalismcenter.org/resource/child-welfare/more-characteristics-sexual-offenders-pedophiles-non-pedophiles-juveniles) ā€œCompared with pedophiles, non-pedophile molesters commit far fewer CSAs (about 5 percent of cases), have comparatively few victims (two or three) and are least likely to reoffend (averaging six molestations). Researchers describe this abuse as one of ā€œopportunity.ā€ These offenders are typically capable of sexual relations with adults, while pedophiles are less likely to be.ā€ There is also variation within this sub-group based on various factors that can result in even lower numbers. In this case the person barely even qualifies as a potential pedophile from an age difference perspective alone, you generally need a greater than 5 year difference, and there can be differences even then, eg a very physically/emotionally mature 14 year old and a very immature 20 year old male may mean a need for caution about the diagnosis. On the other hand the 14 year old may have been very immature for their age, etc. There are various tools that have been developed as a result that make predictions about likelihood of reoffending. If the _only_ identified act was what was listed, the age difference as stated, no physical coercion used etc etc, they would probably not qualify as a ā€˜high riskā€™ offender. But there is a huge amount of potential information we dont have access to that could change things markedly either way, one obvious one being sexual response. Please note I am NOT saying ā€˜its probably OKā€™, Im simply saying it is NOT near certainty this person will reoffend on the basis of the information provided to this point, based on the understanding I have of the research. Edit: I probably shouldnt have used ā€˜manyā€™ which could be read as ā€˜the majorityā€™. Im just saying a lot of people have inaccurate ideas about recidivism rates with the different sex offender typologies identified to date and lump them in as ā€˜all clinical pedophilesā€™ who are far more treatment resistant. The picture is a bit more complicated than that. Otara ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etiquitte-for-conversing-with-a-pedophile/542855/50 "2010-06-14T14:15:38Z")
Dave is scum, he should top himself. ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etiquitte-for-conversing-with-a-pedophile/542855/51 "2010-06-14T16:10:47Z")
Physiological manipulation of young people is wrong, whether it is used to get sex or just to make the manipulator feel better about him(her)self. What exactly is the ā€œyouth workā€ that he is compelled to do? Even if he could demonstrate that he no longer had a sexual interest in young people I would have to question what it is about young people that attracts him so strongly. Teachers and counselors work with young people all the time and they are expected to have proper training and supervision. Ask him why he doesnā€™t want to go that route? Why he has chosen to do ā€œyouth workā€ that is vague, undefined and doesnā€™t involve supervision? I know Iā€™m cynical but religious and youth worker together are as creepy a combination as is possible. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etiquitte-for-conversing-with-a-pedophile/542855.md?page=2)