# Etymology of "Nerd" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 7, 2006, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-nerd/351746 "2006-04-07T17:20:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-nerd/351746/1 "2006-04-07T17:20:48Z")
Not the little candies…well, ok them too. Why do they call those little candies “nerds.” But more specific here, where does the word “nerd” come from when referring to, you know. A nerd. Like Potsie. Any English language nerds out there? Bonus points for a Dopelink to a good “schmuck” query. ;j ---
**Author:** ![Mindfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mindfield/32/19759_2.png) [@Mindfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mindfield)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-nerd/351746/2 "2006-04-07T17:26:44Z")
Merriam-Webster seems to think it could have stemmed from a character in a 1950 Dr. Seuss book entitled _If I Ran The Zoo_ – it was the name of one of the strange creatures that inhabited said zoo. However, [Wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nerd) posits a few alternative theories of origin. ---
**Author:** ![Mindfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mindfield/32/19759_2.png) [@Mindfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mindfield)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-nerd/351746/3 "2006-04-07T17:27:45Z")
Oh bugger. Is there a code doctor in the house? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-nerd/351746/4 "2006-04-07T17:30:11Z")
> [@IM](#): > > But more specific here, where does the word “nerd” come from when referring to, you know. A nerd. Apparently dates back at least as far as 1950 in Dr Seuss’ _If I Ran the Zoo_, but exact [origin unknown](http://home.comcast.net/~brons/NerdCorner/Old-Nerd.html): > [@](#): > > The next appearance of the word that they cite is in the “ABC for SQUARES” column in the February 10, 1957, issue of the Glasgow, Scotland, Sunday Mail. Their definition reads: > “Nerd – a square, any explanation needed?” […] > > I’d love to see solid documentation of the “N.E.R.D. Labs” acronym being used back in the 40s, especially if it came in the form of a picture featuring a NERD Labs pocket protector. The image is just too perfect. But for now it remains just a wonderfully creative suggestion. The documentation still favors Dr. Seuss, I’m afraid. What do you mean, “a good ‘schmuck’ query”? You mean, an etymological derivation for “schmuck”? Yiddish for “penis”. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-nerd/351746/5 "2006-04-07T17:38:28Z")
For a good “schmuck” query, I suppose [this](http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/dmschmuck.htm) would have been the right person to ask. Alas, however, the chance has passed. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-nerd/351746/6 "2006-04-07T17:54:30Z")
The Dr. Seuss explanation is the one I’ve heard most frequently. The Boston Globe even printed the page from Seuss’ book with a column on the word. I’ve never heard anything about “N.E.R.D/ Labs” and a pocket protector – that sounds wildly unlikely, combining the most obvious aspect of nerdliness. When I was at MIT in the 1970s, it was often spelled “gnurd”, which is a pretty nerdy thing to do. Jack Chalker had an artificial animal called a “nerd” in his book **Web of the Chozen**. Nerds are basically living rubber balls, good for observing the effect of alien biosystems on Earth creatures. The idea is that you expose your nerd to the alien environment, bring it back (in a sealed environment) and observe it. If it dies a horrible death due to alien flesh-eating bacteria, you know better than to send anything except a red-shirt down. Sounds like a good use for a nerd. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-nerd/351746/7 "2006-04-07T18:03:09Z")
The OED says: > [@](#): > > [Origin uncertain and disputed (see below). > Perh. \< nerd, a fictional animal in the children’s story If I ran the Zoo (1950) by ‘Dr. Seuss’, depicted as a small, unkempt, humanoid creature with a large head and a comically disapproving expression. Alternatively, sometimes explained as a euphemistic alteration of TURD n. (see e.g. D. L. Gold in Comments on Etymol. (1983) 12 27), although given the predominance of early spellings in -e-, this seems unlikely. The suggestion that the word is back-slang for DRUNK n. is also unsupported by the spellings, as is derivation from the name of Mortimer Snerd, a dummy used by the U.S. ventriloquist Edgar Bergen in the 1930s (see e.g. J. E. Lighter Hist. Dict. Amer. Slang (1977) s.v. Nerd).] What interesting is the date of first cite in the OED: > [@](#): > > 1951 Newsweek 8 Oct. 28 In Detroit, someone who once would be called a drip or a square is now, regrettably, a nerd. 1957 Sunday Mail (Glasgow) 10 Feb. 11 Nerd{em}a square. 1971 Observer 23 May 36/3 Nerds are people who don’t live meaningful lives. 1983 Truck & Bus Transportation July 129/1 When loose-brained nurds crack up the top arrangements of a man o’ my calibre, I got no union t’ thump them nurds with. 1993 Sci. Amer. Apr. 96/1 ‘Nerd’…is movie shorthand for scientists, engineers and assorted technical types who play chess, perhaps, or the violin. 2002 Chicago Tribune 20 Jan. IV. 7/1 Among Silicon Valley nerds, chip engineers…are the geekiest of all. So you have Seuss creating the word for the book, yet by the next year it was used as slang in Detroit. The big question is whether these were just nonce words – that both forms of nerd were used, but died out and the word gained new life in the 80s. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-nerd/351746/8 "2006-04-07T19:11:31Z")
> [@Inigo Montoya](#): > > Bonus points for a Dopelink to a good “schmuck” query. ;j Well, I’m a queery with a good schmuck, does that count? ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-nerd/351746/9 "2006-04-07T19:23:42Z")
I always thought that the concept of “nerd” should include an extra helping of brain, and from what I remember of Potsie, he was quite average in the brain department, if that. Just to provide local anecdotal data, I recall that I first heard the word nerd when starting college in 1975. I’d never heard it in high school, though I think my years in public school were during a peaceful time and in a peaceful place. There was very little bullying or fighting going on, at all. Maybe once a year two guys would fight and everyone would watch, but I didn’t go to a tough sort of school where people constantly fought. By the same token, there just wasn’t a whole lot of name-calling and put-downs either, so I honestly can’t remember what word was used to describe a nerd. “Dork”, probably. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-nerd/351746/10 "2006-04-07T20:01:34Z")
I learned the word from the Petersen Hot Rod Cartoons/CARtoons/Surftoons line of black & white comic magazines in the '60s. There it was usually spelled “nurd” (and meant simply a dope, without the bookworm connotation), and for years I fought a losing battle to spell it that way. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-nerd/351746/11 "2006-04-07T20:08:20Z")
IMO, there’s really nothing in Seuss’s book to suggest a geek - the nerd in the book looks like any Dr. Seuss fanciful animal, and is given very little text (I think the word ‘nerd’ appears only once, and in passing, as on that page the kid lists several types of animals he would get without much description. So I doubt that’s where the word comes from. ---
**Author:** ![Webner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/0ea827/32.png) [@Webner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Webner)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-nerd/351746/12 "2006-04-08T00:12:51Z")
The Online Etymology Dictionary [says](http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=nerd&searchmode=none) that Seuss merely popularized it: > [@](#): > > 1951, U.S. student slang, probably an alteration of 1940s slang nert “stupid or crazy person,” itself an alteration of nut. The word turns up in a Dr. Seuss book from 1950 (“If I Ran the Zoo”), which may have contributed to its rise. Adjective nerdy is from 1978. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-nerd/351746/13 "2006-04-08T00:30:32Z")
Hmmm…I wonder if “nert” has anything to do with “nerts”. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-nerd/351746/14 "2006-04-08T00:32:15Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Apparently dates back at least as far as 1950 in Dr Seuss’ _If I Ran the Zoo_, but exact [origin unknown](http://home.comcast.net/~brons/NerdCorner/Old-Nerd.html): > > What do you mean, “a good ‘schmuck’ query”? You mean, an etymological derivation for “schmuck”? Yiddish for “penis”. Yeah, where did Yiddish get that word? Since schmuck means “jewelry” in German, and Yiddish is a derivation of German, maybe the phrase equates to “family jewels”. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-nerd/351746/15 "2006-04-08T01:42:40Z")
Cassell’s Slang Dictionary says “etymology unknown” but suggests influence from [Mortimer Snerd](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00020XJ6A/103-7633224-8887041?v=glance) , one of radio ventriloquist (!) Edgar Bergen’s creations. Mortimer Snerd was very much a nerd in the 1950s sense. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-nerd/351746/16 "2006-04-08T01:44:50Z")
> [@The OED via RealityChuck](#): > > a small, unkempt, humanoid creature with a large head and a comically disapproving expression. Good Og almighty, that describes half the people I interact with on a daily basis. ---
**Author:** ![panamajack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/47e85d/32.png) [@panamajack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panamajack)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-nerd/351746/17 "2006-04-08T02:27:17Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > Yeah, where did Yiddish get that word? Since schmuck means “jewelry” in German, and Yiddish is a derivation of German, maybe the phrase equates to “family jewels”. I used to think it was related to _Schmuck_ as well, but in the German sense of ‘adornment’ rather than ‘jewels’. [According to the O(nline)E(tymology)D](http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=schmuck), though, schmuck comes from a Old Polish word for snake or dragon, _smok_. English smock is vaguely related to German _Schmuck_, though. **Webner** already provided the link to the entry for ‘nerd’. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-nerd/351746/18 "2006-04-08T03:19:28Z")
> [@Webner](#): > > The Online Etymology Dictionary [says](http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=nerd&searchmode=none) that Seuss merely popularized it: > [@](#): > > 1951, U.S. student slang, probably an alteration of 1940s slang nert “stupid or crazy person,” itself an alteration of nut. The word turns up in a Dr. Seuss book from 1950 (“If I Ran the Zoo”), which may have contributed to its rise. Adjective nerdy is from 1978. Absolutely NO evidence that it comes from “nert” whatever that is. I’d like to see a contemporary cite where nert=stupid/crazy person. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-nerd/351746/19 "2006-04-08T03:19:28Z")
Wait-I thought it was “putz” that was Yiddish for penis, not “schmuck.” ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-nerd/351746/20 "2006-04-08T03:26:39Z")
> [@bup](#): > > IMO, there’s really nothing in Seuss’s book to suggest a geek - the nerd in the book looks like any Dr. Seuss fanciful animal, and is given very little text (I think the word ‘nerd’ appears only once, and in passing, as on that page the kid lists several types of animals he would get without much description. So I doubt that’s where the word comes from. I have the book here. On the same page are: an It-Kutch a Preep a Nerkle and a Proo and a Seersucker, too. The Preep looks a lot more like a nerd than the Nerd does. There is no description of the Nerd other than the picture. On an earlier page are mentioned a Gusset, a Gherkin, a Gasket, and a Gootch. I would agree that Mortimer Snerd, who was actually a nerd, was a more likely influence than Dr. Seuss’s critter, who does not seem to have any nerdlike features, but instead looks like a grouch. > [@Spectre of Pithecanthropus](#): > > I always thought that the concept of “nerd” should include an extra helping of brain, and from what I remember of Potsie, he was quite average in the brain department, if that. That’s not really the original concept, though. Originally a nerd was just a dork, and typically quite stupid. It is only more recently that it has taken on the connotation of overstudiousness. Compare the evolution of the word _geek_, which according to Merriam Webster originally meant: > [@](#): > > 1 : a carnival performer often billed as a wild man whose act usually includes biting the head off a live chicken or snake Geeks only later acquired some brains: > [@](#): > > 2 : a person often of an intellectual bent who is disapproved of [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-nerd/351746.md?page=2)