# Etymology of OK **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [June 22, 2007, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-ok/408990 "2007-06-22T13:12:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Shatneresque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Shatneresque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shatneresque)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-ok/408990/1 "2007-06-22T13:12:04Z")
While the evidence presented for the origin of the term is impressive, I know as a former site guide for the Minnesota Historical Society that the earliest mention we had of it was in an 1832 court martial at Fort Snelling. While this doesn’t exactly contradict the evidence compiled, it would put the origin of “OK” a bit earlier than the fad of the 1830s and '40s, if one assumes that it was already in common parlance at the above date (and had been for some time). ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-ok/408990/2 "2007-06-22T14:07:01Z")
I don’t wish to sound insulting, but I know from experience that tour guides are often taught to include facts in their presentations that can be easily shown to be false. Where did you learn this fact about the word “O.K.”? Were you merely told about it by other site guides, or were you shown the actual quotation from the transcript of the court martial? ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-ok/408990/3 "2007-06-22T15:29:44Z")
Welcome to the SDMB, Shatneresque. A link to the column you’re commenting on is appreciated. Providing one can be as simple as pasting the URL into your post, making sure to leave a blank space on either side of it. Like so: [http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2\_250.html](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_250.html) ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-ok/408990/4 "2007-06-22T18:20:51Z")
Was the person being court martialled from Oklahoma? ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-ok/408990/5 "2007-06-22T19:23:17Z")
[QUOTE=Arnold Winkelried] Was the person being court martialled from Oklahoma? [/QUOTE] In 1832??? :smack: 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-ok/408990/6 "2007-06-22T20:06:57Z")
Well fine, maybe it wasn’t a state yet, but wasn’t Oklahoma part of the Louisiana purchase, which I’m sure was before 1832? So there! ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-ok/408990/7 "2007-06-22T22:37:28Z")
The name “Oklahoma” was not in use until the 1860s. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-ok/408990/8 "2007-06-22T23:07:14Z")
I am fighting a rearguard action, but I’m not done for yet! By searching at the Oklahoma State website ([www.ok.gov](http://www.ok.gov)) I ended up at their [Oklahoma facts](http://www.otrd.state.ok.us/StudentGuide/facts.html) page ([www.otrd.state.ok.us](http://www.otrd.state.ok.us)) which says that the name Oklahoma comes from the Choctaw words “okla” meaning “people” and “humma” meaning “red”. So, even in 1832, people from Oklahoma were “okla”! ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-ok/408990/9 "2007-06-22T23:47:08Z")
It’s pretty hard to find the word “Oklahoma” in print much before 1870. Many state websites are full of misinformation. I’m not saying this is one. Just giving my opinion, input. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2007, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-ok/408990/10 "2007-06-23T02:14:22Z")
There’s a difference between the existence of the word “okla” and the existence of hte name “Oklahoma” for the Indian Territory. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2007, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-ok/408990/11 "2007-06-23T18:52:45Z")
Further, note that the OK abbrev for Oklahoma dates from the 1960s with the introduction of the 2-letter state abbrevs by the US Post Office. Before that, the standard (and only) abbrev was Okla. I (and many others) would be interested in seeing the 1832 cites for _OK_ from Fort Snelling. As I understand it, there is a small amount of evidence of the use of _OK_ from before the late 1830s, but from non-public sources (diaries and letters). ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2007, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-ok/408990/12 "2007-06-23T19:32:11Z")
dtilque writes: \> I (and many others) would be interested in seeing the 1832 cites for OK from \> Fort Snelling. As I understand it, there is a small amount of evidence of the use \> of OK from before the late 1830s, but from non-public sources (diaries and \> letters). As I understand it, there isn’t any evidence for the use of “O.K.” before 1839. There are a couple of places in pre-1839 diaries, letters, etc. where it looks like someone has written something that resembles “O.K.,” but on closer inspection it’s just a hard-to-decipher piece of handwriting or a random case where the letters O and K are used. Shatneresque, _please_ come back to this thread and tell us where and how you were told about the use of “O.K.” in a court martial in 1832. If this turns out to be a real use of the word, you will be the new frontrunner for next year’s Nobel Prize in etymology, pulling ahead of our own samclem, who just found an earlier use of “the whole nine yards.” (Well, yeah, actually there isn’t a Nobel Prize in etymology, but that’s only because an etymologist had an affair with Alfred Nobel’s wife, so he refused to create a prize in that category.) ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2007, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-ok/408990/13 "2007-06-23T22:30:07Z")
[QUOTE=dtilque] Further, note that the OK abbrev for Oklahoma dates from the 1960s with the introduction of the 2-letter state abbrevs by the US Post Office. Before that, the standard (and only) abbrev was Okla. [/QUOTE] Really? Doesn’t OKC have a longer history than that as an abbreviation for Oklahoma City? As for the 1832 court document, I wonder if it mightn’t be a misreading of OR as Cecil mentioned : > [@](#): > > Another Jackson story has it that he used to mark OK for “oll korrect” on court documents. In the one example of this that was actually unearthed, however, the OK was found actually to be OR, for “order recorded,” a common courthouse abbreviation. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2007, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-ok/408990/14 "2007-06-24T00:22:15Z")
[QUOTE=bibliophage] Really? Doesn’t OKC have a longer history than that as an abbreviation for Oklahoma City? [/QUOTE] It may, but if it does it is likely because the three-letter code for the airport there was (and still is) OKC. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2007, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-ok/408990/15 "2007-06-24T02:33:02Z")
Have we all forgotten: We know we belong to the land, And the land we belong to is grand, And when we say Yeow! A-YIP-I-O-EE-AY Were only sayin’ “you’re doing fine Oklahoma, Oklahoma OK!” (1943) ---
**Author:** ![Khampelf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Khampelf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khampelf)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-ok/408990/16 "2007-06-25T03:08:36Z")
Just to add to how popular popular misconceptions can be, this months Reader’s Digest repeats the 27 foot ammo belt misconception in an article about the origins of common phrases. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-ok/408990/17 "2007-06-25T14:10:02Z")
[QUOTE=The Sonoran Lizard King] Just to add to how popular popular misconceptions can be, this months Reader’s Digest repeats the 27 foot ammo belt misconception in an article about the origins of common phrases. [/QUOTE] Pardon me, friend, but [I think you’re a little lost](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8707460#post8707460). 🙂