# Etymology of the word "niner"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 23, 2003, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-the-word-niner/203354 "2003-09-23T17:16:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-the-word-niner/203354/1 "2003-09-23T17:16:11Z")
Why in communications is the word “niner” used for nine? Ostensibly this would be to avoid misunderstand, but misunderstanding what? ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-the-word-niner/203354/2 "2003-09-23T17:20:09Z")
When communicating over noisy voice channels, the word “nine” can easily be confused with the word “five”. The term “niner” was invented to distinguish between the two Another convention which is also used is to pronounce the word “nine” in two syllables, as “Ni-yun”. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-the-word-niner/203354/3 "2003-09-23T17:30:00Z")
Over weak or staticky radio circuits, nine could be confused with five, or even with three. Strategies were divised to make them sound as different as possible. Thus, on military radiotelephone nets you’ll count like this: Zero One Two Tree Fower Fife Six Seven Eight Niner ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-the-word-niner/203354/4 "2003-09-23T17:44:14Z")
The two competing theories I heard related to distinquishing “nine” from “five” and distinquishing the number “nine” in English from the German “nein” (no). It would seem the “nine” vs. “five” reason is more accurate. Does anyone have any cites? ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-the-word-niner/203354/5 "2003-09-23T18:52:43Z")
I’ve got to update my internal dictionary, which currently insists that “Niner” is defined as “A ‘Nooner’, only sooner.” ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-the-word-niner/203354/6 "2003-09-23T22:00:01Z")
While we’re talking radio procedures that became part of common vocabulary, I’ll throw in “five by five”. Originally meant as an evaluation of signal quality, the respondent would give a one-to-five rating of signal volume (1 being faint, 5 being loud) and a one-to-five rating of clarity (1 being garbled, 5 being clear). A “five by five” reponse meant, naturally, that you were coming in loud and clear. The number system gradually faded from use and operators now respond by using adjectives, but “five by five” remained a general-purpose metaphor for smooth operation. Also, through use of the phonetic alphabet, “Viet Cong” became “Victor Charlie”, and eventually just “Charlie”. Isn’t history fun? ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-the-word-niner/203354/7 "2003-09-23T23:18:17Z")
[anecdote] My Dad, a Vietnam veteran (Con Thien, Khe Sahn, with 1st Bn, 9th Marines, “The Walking Dead”) always called cockroaches “Charlie”. I never got the connection until about four years ago. [/anecdote] ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-the-word-niner/203354/8 "2003-09-23T23:29:59Z")
Isn’t it true that in some instances they don’t use the word “five” because it sounds too much like “fire?” IIRC they go straight from six to four. At least it was in a movie I saw and movies are never wrong. ---
**Author:** ![bradministrator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a698b9/32.png) [@bradministrator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bradministrator)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-the-word-niner/203354/9 "2003-09-24T01:03:49Z")
German has a similar trick. Since 2 and 3 (“zwei” and “drei”) have the same problem that 5 and 9 have in English, German speakers will change “zwei” to “zwo.” ---
**Author:** ![Scruloose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@Scruloose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scruloose)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-the-word-niner/203354/10 "2003-09-24T01:22:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KidCharlemagne \* > \*\*Isn’t it true that in some instances they don’t use the word “five” because it sounds too much like “fire?” IIRC they go straight from six to four. At least it was in a movie I saw and movies are never wrong. \*\* IIRC, according to “Junkyard Wars”, that’s the way the Brits do it. The teams had to build cannons, and the British Army rep that was counting down the launch to fire, skipped the number 5 every time. I think they even mentioned that the reasoning was just as you say - so as to not sound like “fire!” ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-the-word-niner/203354/11 "2003-09-24T12:36:44Z")
We do it that way in the Navy too. It sounds like a skipped beat between six and four. ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-the-word-niner/203354/12 "2003-09-24T12:46:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bradministrator \* > German has a similar trick. Since 2 and 3 (“zwei” and “drei”) have the same problem that 5 and 9 have in English, German speakers will change “zwei” to “zwo.” Not much of a trick to me. To the best of my knowledge “zwei” and “zwo” are quite interchangeable in normal speech (dialectal variation?) so it’s just a matter of being practical and chosing the synonym that causes less confusion. ---
**Author:** ![Earthworm\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f07891/32.png) [@Earthworm\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earthworm_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-the-word-niner/203354/13 "2003-09-24T13:16:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr. Moto \* > \*\*We do it that way in the Navy too. It sounds like a skipped beat between six and four. \*\* Of course, the way my mind works, it’d be along the lines of: **[Ego]:** Why’d they skip 5? **[SuperEgo]:** So you don’t think they said “Fire” **[Id]:** Fire!! **FIRE** **[Ego]:** Oh shit… Err…nothing to add really. Carry on… ---
**Author:** ![spogga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ab097/32.png) [@spogga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spogga)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-the-word-niner/203354/14 "2003-09-24T14:28:00Z")
Is it true that on board ship when opening fire on any target they do not say “fire” but “shoot” ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-the-word-niner/203354/15 "2003-09-24T14:51:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chandeleur \* > \*\*IIRC, according to “Junkyard Wars”, that’s the way the Brits do it. The teams had to build cannons, and the British Army rep that was counting down the launch to fire, skipped the number 5 every time. I think they even mentioned that the reasoning was just as you say - so as to not sound like “fire!” \*\* Too funny. Thinking back, that’s exactly where I first saw it. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/etymology-of-the-word-niner/203354/16 "2003-09-25T06:54:15Z")
> [@](#): > > Is it true that on board ship when opening fire on any target they do not say “fire” but “shoot” The usual command to open fire is “Commence firing”.